Is Bill Simmons Crazy?

[Eat Like A Bosh]

No it's not far fetched at all. Duncan has a good argument over Kobe right now, and vice versa. People have different preferences, and I'm sure you will see them ranked differently on each list.

In fact, Kobe over Duncan isn't even a clear cut choice.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe has a higher career TS. His best playoff runs (01,08,09,10) are at least as good as Duncan's best. There is a little difference between them statistically. In fact, Kobe's 2006 and 2003 season are more impressive statistically than any single Duncan season.

Oh yeah, and Kobe has outplayed Duncan in almost all their head-to-head matchups. When he got a good supporting cast, he reeled off three straight Finals and back-to-back chips, something Duncan could never do.

Anyone who doesn't think its debatable is a moron.

If they played the same position or Kobe had the defensive impact Duncan does...it might matter

22/12/3 and elite interior defense for his career in the playoffs with no off court problems or ego issues and a 70% win percentage just trumps;

26/5/5 without the elite defense for his career in the playoffs with on and off court issues and ego issues...took 3 years to mature...had the luxury of playing 2nd fiddle for 8 years...etc.

Duncan's teams have never been on pace to win less than 50 games. The only year it happened they went 37-13 in the lockout year. He's won over 50 games 14 straight years now...a record.

Nobody...and I mean nobody is taking Kobe over Duncan to start a franchise on basketball terms...factor in all the BS you have to deal with...with Kobe...and it's a no brainer

[chopchop20]

I never understood the obsession with repeating. Hey it's great if it happens, but I litterally see no difference between a team that wins in 05 and 06, as opposed to 05 and 07. Only time I actually take it into consideration, is when attempting to figure out whether teams can be consider dynasties

It shows mental toughness, focus, and to some degree, there's dominance. Above all, it's a hard thing to do in any sport.

I mean what made the old Celtics great? Or Wooden's UCLA teams great? You act as if winning multiple titles in a row has nothing to do with legacy.

[chopchop20]

If they played the same position or Kobe had the defensive impact Duncan does...it might matter

22/12/3 and elite interior defense for his career in the playoffs with no off court problems or ego issues and a 70% win percentage just trumps;

26/5/5 without the elite defense for his career in the playoffs with on and off court issues and ego issues...took 3 years to mature...had the luxury of playing 2nd fiddle for 8 years...etc.

Duncan's teams have never been on pace to win less than 50 games. The only year it happened they went 37-13 in the lockout year. He's won over 50 games 14 straight years now...a record.

Nobody...and I mean nobody is taking Kobe over Duncan to start a franchise on basketball terms...factor in all the BS you have to deal with...with Kobe...and it's a no brainer

That's all subjective...

[maybeshewill13]

OP is crazy.

[Purch]

It shows mental toughness, focus, and to some degree, there's dominance. Above all, it's a hard thing to do in any sport.

I mean what made the old Celtics great? Or Wooden's UCLA teams great? You act as if winning multiple titles in a row has nothing to do with legacy.

I don't think it does at all. If a guy has 2 titles as a repeat, and another guy has two titles spaced out by a year why should I give the person with the repeat more props?

What if the second year of the repeat was significantly weaker than the 1st year?

What if in that year that a player didn't repeat, major trades were made and their conference was stronger, and they weren't healthy?

I don't give any real weight to repeating. I only look at the strength of opponents they faced, and obviously how many runs they had.


All championships take mental toughness so I don't really know where you're going with that.

[Purch]

I don't think it does at all. If a guy has 2 titles as a repeat, and another guy has two titles spaced out by a year why should I give the person with the repeat more props?

What if the second year of the repeat was significantly weaker than the 1st year?

What if in that year that a player didn't repeat, major trades were made and their conference was stronger, and they weren't healthy?

I don't give any real weight to repeating. I only look at the strength of opponents they faced, and obviously how many runs they had.


All championships take mental toughness so I don't really know where you're going with that.

A.K.A I look at the individual runs themselves, not in comparision to past runs.

[chopchop20]

I don't think it does at all. If a guy has 2 titles as a repeat, and another guy has two titles spaced out by a year why should I give the person with the repeat more props?

What if the second year of the repeat was significantly weaker than the 1st year?

What if in that year that a player didn't repeat, major trades were made and their conference was stronger, and they weren't healthy?

I don't give any real weight to repeating. I only look at the strength of opponents they faced, and obviously how many runs they had.


All championships take mental toughness so I don't really know where you're going with that.

Or what we just stuck to the facts? Wouldn't be a need for hypothetical scenarios.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Jordan having two 3peats lends a lot more to his greatness than 6 titles won non-consecutively over 12 years. If for no other reason that the perception of dominance.

[RichieW]

Nobody...and I mean nobody is taking Kobe over Duncan to start a franchise on basketball terms...factor in all the BS you have to deal with...with Kobe...and it's a no brainer

While I agree basketball-wise teams would take Duncan over Kobe, but Kobe was always the more exciting player. If you want to put asses in seats, Kobe is the player.

Personally I don't put any stock in to a players flashiness when rating them, but a GM might.

[Purch]

Or what we just stuck to the facts? Wouldn't be a need for hypothetical scenarios.

I think it's reasonable to assume that Jordan having two 3peats lends a lot more to his greatness than 6 titles won non-consecutively over 12 years. If for no other reason that the perception of dominance.

Clearly that flew over your head, because the point I was trying to get out, is that just giving repeat titles glory over non consective titles, doesn't tell us anything about the runs or give us any context. It's simply saying " He won 2 titles in a row so his titles are more valauble". That's what I was trying to say before you answered with your overly arrogant sentence.

I think the repeats added to the casual fans perception of Jordans dominance, but for people who pay attention to every run I think the individual runs themselves are whats important and the sum total. Honestly if Jordan had won his titles in; 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000. I would still percive him as the most dominant player of all time.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

While I agree basketball-wise teams would take Duncan over Kobe, but Kobe was always the more exciting player. If you want to put asses in seats, Kobe is the player.

Personally I don't put any stock in to a players flashiness when rating them, but a GM might.

Frankly DMAVS hyperbole is completely wrong once again. The owners do this to make cash. They would take Kobe and his "ego issues" to the bank all day every day. How many people do you think would tune into a Pacers-Spurs Final?

[tpols]

Clearly that flew over your head, because the point I was trying to get out, is that just giving repeat titles glory over non consective titles, doesn't tell us anything about the runs or give us any context. It's simply saying " He won 2 titles in a row so his titles are more valauble". That's what I was trying to say before you answered with your overly arrogant sentence.

I think the repeats added to the casual fans perception of Jordans dominance, but for people who pay attention to every run I think the individual runs themselves are whats important and the sum total. Honestly if Jordan had won his titles in; 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000. I would still percive him as the most dominant player of all time.

No they wouldn't..

The two most dominant players ever Shaq and MJ are considered that because they put together a string of years where they dominated and no one could stop them. Repeats and 3peats are a sign of dominance.

Grabbing titles in between dynasties are called scavenger titles.

It's different if it's dynasty on dynasty ala Lakers celtics in the 80s..two titans battling it out, can't fault them.

But the Spurs could never beat prime Shaq when he had a good team nor prime kobe when he had a good team. They had to wait for the cracks in between.

[chopchop20]

Frankly DMAVS hyperbole is completely wrong once again. The owners do this to make cash. They would take Kobe and his "ego issues" to the bank all day every day. How many people do you think would tune into a Pacers-Spurs Final?

Agreed. Don't think the Lakers have any regrets over their $150 million/yr tV deal.

[bdreason]

Any planet that values winning.

[chopchop20]

Clearly that flew over your head, because the point I was trying to get out, is that just giving repeat titles glory over non consective titles, doesn't tell us anything about the runs or give us any context. It's simply saying " He won 2 titles in a row so his titles are more valauble". That's what I was trying to say before you answered with your overly arrogant sentence.

I think the repeats added to the casual fans perception of Jordans dominance, but for people who pay attention to every run I think the individual runs themselves are whats important and the sum total. Honestly if Jordan had won his titles in; 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000. I would still percive him as the most dominant player of all time.

You might, but I doubt others would. People tend to bestow more significance on accomplishments that are more difficult to achieve.

You can win a race, but it looks a lot better if you set a record while doing it.

Basically which one would you think a fan or a player want?