If Kobe was born earlier and played with Pippen/Bulls and Jordan with Shaq/Lakers

[tgan3]

How will their legacy be affected?

Will Kobe be considered that GOAT then even over Magic/Bird like Jordan did? Will he succeed with Pippen and Rodman? How many rings?

Conversely, How many rings will Jordan get if he was born later and played with Shaq and the Lakers?

[westsideozzie]

How will their legacy be affected?

Will Kobe be considered that GOAT then even over Magic/Bird like Jordan did? Will he succeed with Pippen and Rodman? How many rings?

Conversely, How many rings will Jordan get if he was born later and played with Shaq and the Lakers?

Pippen would have never deferred to Kobe, because Kobe is a mitch ninja.

[Nashty]

Bulls would have 0 championships with Kobe as a 2nd best player behind Pippen. Lakers would have 10 championships and Jordan would have 10 FMVPs.

[Ne 1]

Assuming that Shaq/Jordan would have the same exact path that Kobe/Shaq did, I think they might win from 1999-2004, but Jordan could very well end up with 0 Finals MVPs.

'99 and '04 would be the only seasons that Jordan might have a shot at Finals MVP. Shaq was far too dominant against the Pacers, Sixers, and Nets front lines that they faced/would have faced from '00 to '03.

'04 is a big stretch too, because Shaq dominated offensively vs the Pistons while they completely shut down every perimeter player they faced.

So maybe Jordan gets one Finals MVP in '99 against the Knicks. Meanwhile, Kobe would likely have won 3-4 rings in the 1990's with Pippen/Grant, winning finals MVP each time.

Ultimately, Shaq would have 4-5+ Finals MVPs, Jordan 1-2, and Kobe 3-4. Kobe v. Jordan would be a legit argument (with more likely choosing Kobe as being better) and Shaq would be the consensus GOAT.

[kNicKz]

Both teams would win championships. Whatever team Jordan is on is the better team

[FiveRings]

How will their legacy be affected?

Will Kobe be considered that GOAT then even over Magic/Bird like Jordan did? Will he succeed with Pippen and Rodman? How many rings?

Conversely, How many rings will Jordan get if he was born later and played with Shaq and the Lakers?

It's hard to say.

Jordan would have been far harder on Shaq than Kobe was and would have slapped the shit out of lazy Shaq. Also, Shaq wouldn't want to be the second option and neither would MJ, so they would probably break up just like Kobe and Shaq did.

Kobe on the Bulls probably wins around 5.

[Dresta]

Assuming that Shaq/Jordan would have the same exact path that Kobe/Shaq did, I think they might win from 1999-2004, but Jordan could very well end up with 0 Finals MVPs.

'99 and '04 would be the only seasons that Jordan might have a shot at Finals MVP. Shaq was far too dominant against the Pacers, Sixers, and Nets front lines that they faced/would have faced from '00 to '03.

'04 is a big stretch too, because Shaq dominated offensively vs the Pistons while they completely shut down every perimeter player they faced.

So maybe Jordan gets one Finals MVP in '99 against the Knicks. Meanwhile, Kobe would likely have won 3-4 rings in the 1990's with Pippen/Grant, winning finals MVP each time.

Ultimately, Shaq would have 4-5+ Finals MVPs, Jordan 1-2, and Kobe 3-4. Kobe v. Jordan would be a legit argument (with more likely choosing Kobe as being better) and Shaq would be the consensus GOAT.

So the precis of your argument is that Kobe stopped Shaq from being the GOAT?

[get these NETS]

Shaq had issues with penny and wade

problem wasn't kobe really


MJ had enough balls and toughness to co exist, even dominate shaq

I guarantee you that if shaq tried to beat up MJ....he would have had to kill him




also......MJ playued with scrub big men so going to basket and trying to score over 2-3 defenders rather than passing it to granville waiters made sense

[Foster5k]

No idea how many championships the Bulls would have won with Kobe instead of the G.O.A.T(Michael Jordan).

However, there is no doubt that MJ + Shaq would of dominated the league like no other force in basketball history. They probably would of won 12-13 championships.

People do not understand really. Kobe is an all time great player, but MJ was just on another level. Shaq would of respected Jordan from day one. You wouldn't have had Jordan + Shaq drama as you did with Kobe and Shaq. Jordan knew how to rub people the right way to get everything out of them.

As dominate as Shaq was, Jordan was a greater force.

[gengiskhan]

Bulls would have 0 championships with Kobe as a 2nd best player behind Pippen. Lakers would have 10 championships and Jordan would have 10 FMVPs.

This.

I see Pippen-Kobe combo same as LBJ-Wade combo.

They are just NOT complimentary players.

Pippen will be playing LBJs part: ball handling, playmaking, defending.
Kobe will be playing Wade part: scoring, scoring & only scoring.

What made Jordan-Pippen combo so DEADLY was they could play MULTIPLE ROLES.

Jordan in his ATHLETIC PEAK PRIME 1987-1993 played "3-guard" position too.
Thats point, off & small combined.


Pippen in his hay days 1992-1997 played "Point Forward", thats PG, SG, SG combined.

& both were on one team!!.

It created a serious match up problems to championship calibre teams.

Kobe will just be another Wade or Drexler or Dominique in btw 1980-1999.

[Nuff Said]

Kobe modeled his game heavily after Jordan. Jordan inspired Kobe. If their birthdates were switched Kobe wouldn't even be as effective as he was in our current timeline. MJ had a drive that was all his own. It's no doubt he'd have similar or better success with Shaq's Lakers. Shit maybe Shaq would've even stayed longer.

[CAstill]

No idea how many championships the Bulls would have won with Kobe instead of the G.O.A.T(Michael Jordan).

However, there is no doubt that MJ + Shaq would of dominated the league like no other force in basketball history. They probably would of won 12-13 championships.

People do not understand really. Kobe is an all time great player, but MJ was just on another level. Shaq would of respected Jordan from day one. You wouldn't have had Jordan + Shaq drama as you did with Kobe and Shaq. Jordan knew how to rub people the right way to get everything out of them.

As dominate as Shaq was, Jordan was a greater force.

You clearly didn't watch basketball and understood it. You're absolutely crazy if you think a fresh out of high school Jordan drafted thirteenth would become the first option over the key free agent acquisition that just made the finals and was already dominating the league that just happened to be a center. There would of been such a fat power struggle with Shaq and Jordan as soon as Jordan realized he was getting slighted on the credit for the titles ESPECIALLY if he does any Kobe type playoff series. Jordan wants to be the GOAT, Shaq wants to be GOAT, Kobe wants to be GOAT. Too many hands in the jar something has got to give. It was Shaq and he got the short end of the stick.

[JtotheIzzo]

I think things would have ended up differently, but they still would have won two of the first three title.

I think they would have won in 91(which was a cake walk), and 92 (The Blazers were paper tigers) but I think Phoenix would have won in 93. Michael was hell bent on f*ckin with Charles and they Bulls came out of the gates roaring. With Kobe not having that rivalry the Suns get off to a better start and win the series.

They would also win 2 of the first 3 post retirement titles (I will give the Jazz a championship in 1998 with Bulls losing to the Pacers in the ECF). The Pacers were the best team in the NBA that year, Jordan just willed them to win. F*ck that maybe the Pacers beat the Jazz too.

Winning 3 is tough, and doing it without Shaq is tougher.

4 out of 6 titles, certainly not bad, Kobe is the best guy to replace Jordan in this regard.

[Rasheed1]

Kobe modeled his game heavily after Jordan. Jordan inspired Kobe. If their birthdates were switched Kobe wouldn't even be as effective as he was in our current timeline. MJ had a drive that was all his own. It's no doubt he'd have similar or better success with Shaq's Lakers. Shit maybe Shaq would've even stayed longer.

stupid thread... but this is most legitimate answer to the OP question.

Kobe's whole identity was modeled after Mj so its impossible to know what kobe would have been if he didnt have Mj to look up to...

[KobesFinger]

Shaq had issues with penny and wade

problem wasn't kobe really


MJ had enough balls and toughness to co exist, even dominate shaq

I guarantee you that if shaq tried to beat up MJ....he would have had to kill him




also......MJ playued with scrub big men so going to basket and trying to score over 2-3 defenders rather than passing it to granville waiters made sense

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...t-horace-grant

"He didn`t do or say anything to anybody until late that season, when he told Jordan he needed to talk to him.

There was little small talk exchanged. ``I don`t like the things I`ve heard you say about me,`` Cartwright told Jordan.

Jordan stared at him.

``If I ever hear again that you`re telling guys not to pass me the ball,`` Cartwright continued, ``you will never play basketball again.``

That was it. But as Cartwright began to move better after surgery following the 1989-90 season, Jordan began to accept him more."

http://www.celticslife.com/2012/03/a...d-michael.html

"In one of his first practices with the Bulls, Parish botched one of the plays and was amused to find Jordan jawing at him just inches from his face.

"I told him, 'I'm not as enamored with you as these other guys. I've got some rings too,' " Parish recalled. "At that point he told me, 'I'm going to kick your ass.' I took one step closer and said, 'No, you really aren't.' After that he didn't bother me.""

If MJ wasn't tough enough to not back down from Cartwright or the Chief, you think he'd be up in prime Shaq's face?