Why Kobe is rated higher than Shaq all time

[Ca$H]

This is basketball. God given talent matters. If all you care about is skill then go watch golf.

All NBA Team? your main argument is a ****ing media award? Kobe has two chances at getting on the First team(2 guard spots), while Shaq only has 1.

Shaq would have been GOAT if he had Kobe's work ethic. Kobe would have been a role player with Shaq's work ethic. You can't deny it.

[Jax]

Not in my book he's not.

[havoc33]

Except Shaq's longevity was actaully better.

Kobe's longevity was overrated. He was a superstar from 01-10 but he had two shitty seasons that you don't even want to count, 2004 and 2005.

Shaq has the most consecutive 20/10 seasons of all-time and was a superstar from 1994-1995 to 2005.

How can anyone here even try to take you serious? Your constant and biased anti-Kobe posts are more than annoying, and I hope someone could ban your ass to oblivion. Furthermore, stating that Kobe's 2004 season was a shitty one just shows how little comprehension you have of basketball, and I suspect you didn't even follow the league back then. If you did, you were still sitting on mommy's lap while doing so. The fact that I'm quoting you probably only feeds your trolling nature, but I promise it'll be the last time.

Now, if you want have Shaq above Kobe in your ranking that's all fine by me, though I couldn't disagree more. Kobe has simply played on a higher level in a longer time than Shaq ever did, which is why Kobe's list of accolades is also superior to Shaq's. Kobe's arguably been a top 5 player from 2001 till 2013, and that is more than you ever can say of Shaq. 1st team selections, defensive selections, all star selections, championships... Kobe's got the advantage in almost any achievement possible, except Finals MVP's.

I will agree though that Shaq had a higher peak season than Kobe ever had. Shaq's 99-00 season is one of the most dominant seasons I've ever seen in basketball. Unfortunately, Shaq was back to his lazy ways already the next season, allowing Kobe to do much of the heavy work during the regular season and the Playoffs. Shaq had the potential to be the GOAT, but a lack of conditioning and dedication to the game caused him to miss out on achieving even more. The fact that a player of Shaq's caliber NEVER MADE THE ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM says it all really. Tex Winter, one of the most knowledgeable people in basketball history, was in fact so sick of Shaq's lack of dedication on the defensive end, that he went on record saying that he would expose Shaq for the fraud that he was.

In the end, these are the reasons why Kobe is by most people ranked higher than Shaq. Kobe has been a constant excellence for over a decade now, and his accolades speaks for themselves. If anything, you could say that Kobe actually overachieved, as he never really had the physical gifts of Jordan, Shaq or Lebron. He had to rely on hard work and skill to make it to the top, which makes it even more impressive that he's managed to stay amongst the best for so long. This is ultimately why he's got so much respect from the greats as well, both Bird and Jordan have gone on record speaking very favorably of Kobe and his approach to the game.

[kennethgriffin]

This is basketball. God given talent matters. If all you care about is skill then go watch golf.

All NBA Team? your main argument is a ****ing media award? Kobe has two chances at getting on the First team(2 guard spots), while Shaq only has 1.

only problem with that excuse is that for the most part over the last 13-15 years.. theres only been 2-3 good centers in the nba at a time

while kobes always had to deal with an unlimited amount of great pg's/sg's

kobe finished #1 in guard all nba 1st team voting 8 out of 11 times

and the only times he was out voted were against

- chris paul in 2013
- derrick rose in 2011
- jason kidd in 2002

all 3 were point guards


so not one single time did kobe bryant steal a 1st team all nba as "the 2nd best guy at his position"

all 11 times kobe made 1st team all nba. he was the top voted shooting guard





ETHERED

[longhornfan1234]

Shaq > Kobe.

Superior peak, and won 3 championships as the man.

[havoc33]

-Shaq relevant from 1992-2006
-Kobe relevant from 1999-2013

Looks similar to me. Kobe also has a bunch of epic failed seasons like 2005 and 2013 that shouldn't even count.

-Shaq Most 20-10 seasons all-time, yeah more of them than Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, whoever the **** you want to name.

And most importantly when both of them were in their prime during the threepeat, Shaq was far and away the better player. Kobe was as good as he ever was in 2001 and he didn't even compare to Shaq who was winning the Finals MVP putting 33 PPG and 16 RPG on 58% shooting vs the current DPOY. Kobe shot 41% vs Eric Snow.

Funny how you point how good Shaq's stats were in the Finals, yet say NOTHING about who dominated the first three rounds against faaaar superior competition. If the Playoffs ended after the 2001 WCF, Kobe, not Shaq, would have received the MVP. Epic fail once again on your part. Also, it just proves your basketball ignorance that you put so much value into Finals MVP's, failing to realize that match-ups and strategy will play into it. I guess James Worthy was better and more important to the Lakers than Magic in 88 as well huh? Thought so.

And you can't be serious about Kobe's prime being in 2001.. kid, just stop will you.

[sbw19]

[COLOR=Teal]Just out of curiosity what're the two's career playoff and finals statistical averages?[/COLOR]

[Ca$H]

Another backfired thread by an ignorant kobe stan
Shaq> kobe
How does shaq's ass taste?

I posted a link and a quote. You are calling the author of those rankings an ignorant Kobe stan?

[Ca$H]

Then chances are these idiots will just follow each other so they don't look bad which is what they do with Kobe.

They have no opinions which is just as bad.

Like you previously stated these are people with college degrees. You most likely don't have a GED. So I am suppose to value your opinion over their opinions?

[TonyMontana]

Funny how you point how good Shaq's stats were in the Finals, yet say NOTHING about who dominated the first three rounds against faaaar superior competition. If the Playoffs ended after the 2001 WCF, Kobe, not Shaq, would have received the MVP. Epic fail once again on your part. Also, it just proves your basketball ignorance that you put so much value into Finals MVP's, failing to realize that match-ups and strategy will play into it. I guess James Worthy was better and more important to the Lakers than Magic in 88 as well huh? Thought so.

And you can't be serious about Kobe's prime being in 2001.. kid, just stop will you.

You mean Kobe putting up stats against Sean Elliot while Shaq faced double teams from TWO MVP 7 footers in David Robinson and Tim Duncan?



The award is "Finals MVP" not "first round MVP". If Kobe was anything close to being Shaqs equal he would have been able to pick up at least one of them away from Shaq. Even guys like Parker and Worthy were able to steal one from their teams alphas.

Kobe was at his best in 2001. And that best was still nowhere close to Shaq. I know it must be tough for you since you started watching basketball in 2006.

28.5 PPG on 46.4% shooting and his defense was at the best it ever was. After the threepeat Kobes defense fell off a cliff. Give me Fro Kobe over any other. The defense is the difference. All of his top offensive years are around the same at 45-46%.

[havoc33]

I posted a link and a quote. You are calling the author of those rankings an ignorant Kobe stan?

Bill Simmons, who I consider more knowledgeable than any of us, wrote the EPIC Book of Basketball (it's 700 pages long), and left Shaq out of his top 10. Kobe is at 8.

Personally I have Shaq in my top 10, but there are certainly many knowledgeable basketball heads out there who'd take Kobe over Shaq.

[kennethgriffin]

[COLOR=Teal]Just out of curiosity what're the two's career playoff and finals statistical averages?[/COLOR]

kobes playoff average ( since 1996 )

25.6ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.7 apg

kobes playoff average as a starter ( since 1999 )

27.4ppg, 5.4rpg, 5.1 apg

kobes playoff average without shaq ( since 2006 )

29.1ppg, 5.4rpg, 5.1 apg

kobes playoff average in 3 nba finals without shaq ( 2008-2010 )

29.8ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.5 apg





shaqs playoff average

24.3ppg, 11.6rpg, 2.7apg

shaqs playoff average before playing with kobe ( before 1997 )

25.3ppg, 11.4rpg, 3.7apg

shaqs playoff average after playing with kobe ( after 2004 )

16.5ppg, 8.1rpg, 1.6apg

shaqs playoff average in his only title without kobe ( 2006 )

18.4ppg, 9.8rpg, 1.7apg

[havoc33]

You mean Kobe putting up stats against Sean Elliot while Shaq faced double teams from TWO MVP 7 footers in David Robinson and Tim Duncan?



The award is "Finals MVP" not "first round MVP". If Kobe was anything close to being Shaqs equal he would have been able to pick up at least one of them away from Shaq. Even guys like Parker and Worthy were able to steal one from their teams alphas.

Kobe was at his best in 2001. And that best was still nowhere close to Shaq. I know it must be tough for you since you started watching basketball in 2006.

28.5 PPG on 46.4% shooting and his defense was at the best it ever was. After the threepeat Kobes defense fell off a cliff. Give me Fro Kobe over any other. The defense is the difference. All of his top offensive years are around the same at 45-46%.

Once again, you show that you know NOTHING about Laker basketball. It's a ****ing disgrace that people like you are even allowed to come with this shit. If you're going to dis someone, at least bring facts, not random shit that you have read on boards since you finished high school last year.

First off, Kobe's best defensive season was in 2000, not 2001. In 2001, he actually slipped considerably, especially after his ankle problems kicked in. I remember Phil Jackson saying he was getting "embarrassed out there a bit". His 2002 season was much better defensively than his 2001 campaign.

Now why don't you know this? It's blatantly obvious; because you didn't even watch basketball back then. You are a stupid stan who come in here and look at box scores, look at advanced stats and highlights, think you know it all. But when real talk comes to play, you don't know anything about the story behind those numbers, what preceded those highlights. It's embarrassing really.

And if you want to talk stats, both you and me know that fg% don't tell the whole story, and most definitely not in Shaq's case, as he couldn't hit a freethrow if his life depended on it. Fact is that during Shaq's peak, he had the best sidekick in the history of the game to help him out. A sidekick so good, he actually stole the spotlight from him a lot of times. Now is that saying something about Shaq's level of play, or Kobe's? You be the judge.

Just so you don't get it twisted, by no means am I saying that Kobe was better than Shaq during the threepeat, cause he was not. But by 2001 Kobe was a superstar in his own right, a top 5 player, and AT TIMES was playing at a higher level than Shaq did, as evident throughout the first three rounds of the 2001 Playoffs. You don't think Shaq benefited from playing with Kobe as well? Please. Shaq never achieved anything without having a dynamic guard next to him, as evident by Penny, Kobe and Wade. He always needed someone to close out games for him, as he was not reliable in the clutch. Much like Kobe didn't win without a quality big, it goes both ways of course.

[TonyMontana]

[COLOR=Teal]Just out of curiosity what're the two's career playoff and finals statistical averages?[/COLOR]

Playoffs
Shaq: 24.3 PPG 11.6 RPG 56.3% shooting
Kobe: 25.6 PPG 5.1 RPG 44.8% shooting

We can expect Kobes numbers to dip as he goes to his last years like Shaqs did. Actually nvm we might not, the Lakers arn't even going to be making the playoffs.

Shaq Finals
95: 28.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.50 bpg, .595 FG%
00: 38.0 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.67 bpg .611 FG%
01: 33.0 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.40 bpg, .573 FG%
02: 36.3 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.75 bpg, .595 FG%
04: 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.60 bpg, .631 FG%
06: 13.7 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.83 bpg, .607 FG%


Kobe Finals
00: 15.6 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.4 BPG, .367 FG%
01: 24.6 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 5.8 APG, 1.4 BPG, .415 FG%
02: 26.8 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 5.3 APG, .75 BPG, .514 FG%
04: 22.6 PPG, 2.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .6 BPG, .381 FG%
08: 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG 40 FG%
09: 32 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 7.4 AGP, 42% FG
10: 28 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 3.9 APG, 40.5% FG

And here are Kobe and Shaqs overall averages for all 3 threepeat titles from 00-02


Total average stats for 3 championships (15 games)=

Shaq=36 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 3.7 APG, 3 BPG 60% FG
Kobe=20 PPG, 6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1 BPG 42% FG

[kennethgriffin]

Playoffs
Shaq: 24.3 PPG 11.6 RPG 56.3% shooting
Kobe: 25.6 PPG 5.1 RPG 44.8% shooting

We can expect Kobes numbers to dip as he goes to his last years like Shaqs did. Actually nvm we might not, the Lakers arn't even going to be making the playoffs.

Shaq Finals
95: 28.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.50 bpg, .595 FG%
00: 38.0 ppg, 16.7 rpg, 2.3 apg, 2.67 bpg .611 FG%
01: 33.0 ppg, 15.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 3.40 bpg, .573 FG%
02: 36.3 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 3.8 apg, 2.75 bpg, .595 FG%
04: 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.60 bpg, .631 FG%
06: 13.7 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 2.8 apg, 0.83 bpg, .607 FG%


Kobe Finals
00: 15.6 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.4 BPG, .367 FG%
01: 24.6 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 5.8 APG, 1.4 BPG, .415 FG%
02: 26.8 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 5.3 APG, .75 BPG, .514 FG%
04: 22.6 PPG, 2.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .6 BPG, .381 FG%
08: 25 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 5 APG, .16 BPG 40 FG%
09: 32 PPG, 5.5 RPG, 7.4 AGP, 42% FG
10: 28 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 3.9 APG, 40.5% FG

And here are Kobe and Shaqs overall averages for all 3 threepeat titles from 00-02


Total average stats for 3 championships (15 games)=

Shaq=36 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 3.7 APG, 3 BPG 60% FG
Kobe=20 PPG, 6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1 BPG 42% FG

ya but those indiana/philly/jersey series were probably the easiest 3 teams out of all 12 the lakers played

thats why shaq dominated them. cause they werent close.

kobe dominated the best teams LA faced cause all the games were usually tight. and a tight game means shaq gets sent to the line more, and theres more chance for hackashaq or a need for a clutch player to create something

that and he faced 2 guys on their death bed ( rick and deke ) and some canadian overweight guy named todd



this is why you gotta go by playoff stats and not finals. the real finals was the first 3 rounds