Why Kobe is rated higher than Shaq all time

[TonyMontana]

Once again, you show that you know NOTHING about Laker basketball. It's a ****ing disgrace that people like you are even allowed to come with this shit. If you're going to dis someone, at least bring facts, not random shit that you have read on boards since you finished high school last year.

First off, Kobe's best defensive season was in 2000, not 2001. In 2001, he actually slipped considerably, especially after his ankle problems kicked in. I remember Phil Jackson saying he was getting "embarrassed out there a bit". His 2002 season was much better defensively than his 2001 campaign.

Now why don't you know this? It's blatantly obvious; because you didn't even watch basketball back then. You are a stupid stan who come in here and look at box scores, look at advanced stats and highlights, think you know it all. But when real talk comes to play, you don't know anything about the story behind those numbers, what preceded those highlights. It's embarrassing really.

And if you want to talk stats, both you and me know that fg% don't tell the whole story, and most definitely not in Shaq's case, as he couldn't hit a freethrow if his life depended on it. Fact is that during Shaq's peak, he had the best sidekick in the history of the game to help him out. A sidekick so good, he actually stole the spotlight from him a lot of times. Now is that saying something about Shaq's level of play, or Kobe's? You be the judge.

Just so you don't get it twisted, by no means am I saying that Kobe was better than Shaq during the threepeat, cause he was not. But by 2001 Kobe was a superstar in his own right, a top 5 player, and AT TIMES was playing at a higher level than Shaq did, as evident throughout the first three rounds of the 2001 Playoffs. You don't think Shaq benefited from playing with Kobe as well? Please. Shaq never achieved anything without having a dynamic guard next to him, as evident by Penny, Kobe and Wade. He always needed someone to close out games for him, as he was not reliable in the clutch. Much like Kobe didn't win without a quality big, it goes both ways of course.

Yeah you caught me. I came up with Kobe having his defensive peak in 2001 from reading box scores.

What stat would I even look at to come to that assumption you pathetic little stan? Kobes defense in the threepeat era all in all was good. I picked 2001 because he was also as good as he'd ever be offensively. In 2000 he was a role player averaging 15 PPG in the Finals and in 2002 he shot 43% in the playoffs.

Kobe was good in 2001 because the Lakers steamrolled the competition and Kobe never had to play against any kind of real adversity.

Shall I bring up Kobes stats in elimination games and Game 7s when it's a do or die game? I think I will, just to show how mentally weak this "clutch god" is.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:
21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

LMFAO!

Absolutely pathetic numbers when his back his against the wall. And this guy is supposed to be mentally tough?

You could have replaced Kobe with any all-star guard in the league in those years and the Lakers cruise(maybe even win more if its someone that wont sabotage the team). With Shaq though the only guy you even have a CHANCE at replacing him with would be Duncan who was in his prime and one of the top 5 or so players of all-time. Give Shaq Phil Jackson and a decent guard and your on that championship cruise. Your guaranteed releance with Shaq. You won't catch him missing the playoffs and getting owned in the first round for 3 consecutive years of his prime.

[TonyMontana]

ya but those indiana/philly/jersey series were probably the easiest 3 teams out of all 12 the lakers played

thats why shaq dominated them. cause they werent close.

kobe dominated the best teams LA faced cause all the games were usually tight. and a tight game means shaq gets sent to the line more, and theres more chance for hackashaq or a need for a clutch player to create something

that and he faced 2 guys on their death bed ( rick and deke ) and some canadian overweight guy named todd



this is why you gotta go by playoff stats and not finals. the real finals was the first 3 rounds

Wrong

Kobe choked in the Finals just like hes done his entire career. When the pressure is on he fades. See above for his statistics in Game 7s and elimination games. When your in the Finals you start to feel the heat.

Shaq was limited by some of the Western conference teams because EVERY team in the West had to worry about Shaq in those years. If you wanted to get to the Finals you had to have an answer for Shaq. He was the top player on the planet. So what you have is teams loading up on bigs hoping to contain him.

Blazers: Sabonis, Rasheed Wallace, Brian Grant, JO not to mention Pippen came down doubling Shaq the second he touched the ball.
SAC: Divac, Webber,
Spurs: Duncan, Robinson

Kobe didn't command a quarter of the respect that Shaq did. Teams were content throwing Sean Elliots on him and living with the results.

Also Mutombo was the 2001 Defensive Player of the Year when Shaq split his asshole open in the Finals. Far from "on his deathbed". Thats where he was after Shaq dominated him for another Finals MVP to be added to his collection.

[kobeef24]

kobes playoff average ( since 1996 )

25.6ppg, 5.1rpg, 4.7 apg

kobes playoff average as a starter ( since 1999 )

27.4ppg, 5.4rpg, 5.1 apg

kobes playoff average without shaq ( since 2006 )

29.1ppg, 5.4rpg, 5.1 apg

kobes playoff average in 3 nba finals without shaq ( 2008-2010 )

29.8ppg, 5.7rpg, 5.5 apg





shaqs playoff average

24.3ppg, 11.6rpg, 2.7apg

shaqs playoff average before playing with kobe ( before 1997 )

25.3ppg, 11.4rpg, 3.7apg

shaqs playoff average after playing with kobe ( after 2004 )

16.5ppg, 8.1rpg, 1.6apg

shaqs playoff average in his only title without kobe ( 2006 )

18.4ppg, 9.8rpg, 1.7apg

This is great info but you've got to include their averages when they played together. Glad to see you're actually providing some good information now though. Personally I've got Shaq slightly ahead of Kobe right now, but it's close.

[havoc33]

Yeah you caught me. I came up with Kobe having his defensive peak in 2001 from reading box scores.

What stat would I even look at to come to that assumption you pathetic little stan? Kobes defense in the threepeat era all in all was good. I picked 2001 because he was also as good as he'd ever be offensively. In 2000 he was a role player averaging 15 PPG in the Finals and in 2002 he shot 43% in the playoffs.

Kobe was good in 2001 because the Lakers steamrolled the competition and Kobe never had to play against any kind of real adversity.

Shall I bring up Kobes stats in elimination games and Game 7s when it's a do or die game? I think I will, just to show how mentally weak this "clutch god" is.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:
21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

LMFAO!

Absolutely pathetic numbers when his back his against the wall. And this guy is supposed to be mentally tough?

You could have replaced Kobe with any all-star guard in the league in those years and the Lakers cruise(maybe even win more if its someone that wont sabotage the team). With Shaq though the only guy you even have a CHANCE at replacing him with would be Duncan who was in his prime and one of the top 5 or so players of all-time. Give Shaq Phil Jackson and a decent guard and your on that championship cruise. Your guaranteed releance with Shaq. You won't catch him missing the playoffs and getting owned in the first round for 3 consecutive years of his prime.

Thank you for proving my point. You point to stats, yet show very little understanding of context, or even basketball for that matter. Not that I blame you or anything, it's all you can do since you're a youngster. You have no foundation to base your reasoning on, except stats. You're like Mike Brown, a stats guy.

[TonyMontana]

Thank you for proving my point. You point to stats, yet show very little understanding of context, or even basketball for that matter. Not that I blame you or anything, it's all you can do since you're a youngster. You have no foundation to base your reasoning on, except stats. You're like Mike Brown, a stats guy.

No reply to the content just as I thought.

Which Kobe stan is next?

[Soundwave]

It's partly to do with the fact that we saw Shaq decline a lot in his last few years.

Kobe will go through that too and then things will even out.

[Unbiased_one]

He has 8 first team All NBA selections so he was elite for 8 seasons.

In 94-95 shaq was 29/12 on 58% from the field. He was fairly obviously elite. 2nd team

In 93-94 shaq was 29/13 on 60% and was third team all-nba .

There are other seasons like that.

Shaq was on 14 all-nba teams. Cause he played centre, that means he was elite for at least 12 seasons ( I felt at least two were dodgy, but hey all superstars get dodgy award boosts...just look at the number of first teams Kobe's been on )

[Unbiased_one]

I hate all lakers except Kobe. I am the worst kind of fan.

I don't understand how a lakers fan doesn't know this: in the three peat years, teams lived (and died) by doubling and tripling shaq. Just go watch the games...the amount of open perimeter shots taken was ridiculous. Shaq opened the floor.

[branslowski]

This is basketball. God given talent matters. If all you care about is skill then go watch golf.

All NBA Team? your main argument is a ****ing media award? Kobe has two chances at getting on the First team(2 guard spots), while Shaq only has 1.

Disses the All-NBA team that's a major honor because It's a "media award", the next day proceeds to talk about Lebrons MVPs, another "media" award....Just another day in the life of low iq haters, God Bless America..

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

I don't get how Kobe is ranked higher.

Shaq DOMINATED in the truest sense of the word, something we hadn't seen since Wilt.

Not sure how Kobe's stock rose while Shaq's dropped.

if we're going strictly on peak/prime, shaq is #1 all-time.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

No reply to the content just as I thought.

Which Kobe stan is next?

lol @ this fcking bum. you ain't owning ANYBODY clown.

[INDI]

Shaq > Kobe.

Superior peak, and won 3 championships as the man.

Funny thing about these debates is, kobe fans never bring defense into the equation. Defense is what seperates kobe from Shaq and will give him the bounce over Bird once he retires

[PJR]

Total average stats for 3 championships (15 games)=

Shaq=36 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 3.7 APG, 3 BPG 60% FG
Kobe=20 PPG, 6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1 BPG 42% FG[/B]

[DMAVS41]

Yeah you caught me. I came up with Kobe having his defensive peak in 2001 from reading box scores.

What stat would I even look at to come to that assumption you pathetic little stan? Kobes defense in the threepeat era all in all was good. I picked 2001 because he was also as good as he'd ever be offensively. In 2000 he was a role player averaging 15 PPG in the Finals and in 2002 he shot 43% in the playoffs.

Kobe was good in 2001 because the Lakers steamrolled the competition and Kobe never had to play against any kind of real adversity.

Shall I bring up Kobes stats in elimination games and Game 7s when it's a do or die game? I think I will, just to show how mentally weak this "clutch god" is.

Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:
22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG, 1.2 SPG, .6 BPG, 3.0 TOPG, 41.4 FG%, 27.5 3P%, 77.9 FT%

Kobe Bryant G7 Stats:
21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

LMFAO!

Absolutely pathetic numbers when his back his against the wall. And this guy is supposed to be mentally tough?

You could have replaced Kobe with any all-star guard in the league in those years and the Lakers cruise(maybe even win more if its someone that wont sabotage the team). With Shaq though the only guy you even have a CHANCE at replacing him with would be Duncan who was in his prime and one of the top 5 or so players of all-time. Give Shaq Phil Jackson and a decent guard and your on that championship cruise. Your guaranteed releance with Shaq. You won't catch him missing the playoffs and getting owned in the first round for 3 consecutive years of his prime.

Dat clutch ft shooting!!!!!!!!

ROFL...in all honesty...that actually does show signs of mental weakness and real choking.

His ft shooting drops considerably in game 7's...

[joeyjoejoe]

36, 15 on 60% or 20, 6 on 42% wow that's a tough one lmao