A sad situation. When being unselfish hurts your standing in history.

[Twiens]

Bosh is the definition of this topic

[FatComputerNerd]

Definitely Bosh

[riseagainst]

Bosh. every lebronstan and heat bandwagoners are bagging this guy for taking many steps back and being turned into a 3 point shooter.

[SCdac]

I know I'm the minority on Bosh...

But I feel like he would have "hurt his legacy" way more had he joined the Heat 2-3 years earlier than he did (gave up on the Raptors really quickly) or 2-3 years later than he did (and the Heat still won championships without him).

His value to the Heat I'd argue has become underrated... which I guess points the gist of this thread.... but I'm of the camp that they needed/need him.

From my perspective, he proved himself in Toronto enough to know what he was independent of the Heat. Was a known commodity that teams were after. It wasn't like Manu, who never had that chance really.

If only Toronto had drafted LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy (however short lived his career was) instead of the non-rebounding non-defensive Bargs, maybe they woulda made more noise than they did.

But with the balance of being the head guy in Toronto (multiple AS appearances) and then a key cog to a championship team... I feel he played his cards better than even Lebron did. Lebron joined Wade (similar caliber player) yet Bosh was never held to that same standard because he's not an MVP, top-5 type player.

Will people remember Sheed more from Portland or from Detroit? .... I'd say Detroit, even if it wasn't the best version of him... In saying that, people remembering BOsh from the Heat will actually help him in ways.

[sdot_thadon]

Excellent post. Dr.J gets more marginalized by the year it seems and he was once the center of the basketball universe. The unselfishness in the nba did take away from his career greatly since some refuse to acknowledge his aba exploits. They basically translate his sacrifice into him being unable to dominate the same in the better league. Sucks that there was not much footage from his best years.

[9erempiree]

There's unselfish and play and there is stupidity and a failure to recognize that your teammate sucks and you need to step up and takeover.

That's what Erving's problem was, if the OP wants to start blaming his scrub teammates.

[L.Kizzle]

Clyde Drexler is the perfect example for this.

He wasn't that vocal as others, and shared the ball too much. He played with a bunch of good guys like Porter, Kiki, Kersey, Duck, Buck, ect. It's similar to the Doc J situation you posted about.

[pudman13]

The guy who comes to my mind is Dr. J's teammate, Bobby Jones, who accepted a role as a 6th man (for several years) to help his team win even though he had all-star ability as a starter (stlil has one of the greatest FG% of all time, yet was known primarily as a defensive player.) The guy was amazing--could defend anyone, could defend anybody, dunked almost as stunningly as J, but did it all with a lack of attitude and without any ego. The guy is almost completely forgotten today.

[sportjames23]

another A+ post by Kblaze.

Dunking from the freethrow line back then when it is still considered an awe inspiring dunk these days sais enough on how athletic and ahead of his time his game was. The guy was ruling the ABA because he could do it any which way he wanted to.

Amazing post Kblaze simply amazing

Truth.

Damn, Blaze, you brought the thunder with this thread.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont know if Bosh is really hurt by it. He went from being a vin Baker/Derrick coleman type winning 25-40 games most years wit ha peak of 47 and a first round exit to one of the most watched players in the world on a likely dynasty that will get him remembered. He was heading down a Bob Lanier path at best. Known by real fans but not actually accomplishing much of anything.

Now hes on more of a Worthy path.

Doc, Earl, and wilt were all nba first team types who had won before they did the things in question. Doc ABA titles, Monroe had been t othe finals, and Wilt already had a ring.

Bosh probably increased his profile even with the reduced stats.

[Bandito]

I think Chris Bosh has that same problem. He is playing with two ball stoppers in Lebron and Wade and had to sacrifice a lot in order to make that team unstoppable, even playing out of position at center when he is obviously not one.

His stats went down from superstar stats 25 pts and 10 rbs to how much like 17 and 8 in the Heat? I respect Bosh a lot because of that fact. Without him the Heat don't win.

[Kblaze8855]

Putting up 22/9 or 23/10 on teams that won 33, 33, 27, 47(first round loss), 41, 33, and 40 games or doing 18/8 or 17/9 on a team that goes to 3 straight finals and might win 3-5 rings?

Im thinking he comes out more respected being on the Heat. Hes no doubt a bigger star. Wilt on Philly, Monroe on the Bullets, and Doc in the ABa went from Wilt playing the best anyone ever had, Monroe leading a finals team and being all nba first team, and Doc being called the best player ever by some....

To Wilt being mocked in the media for falling off and laughed at over ppg for 40 years, Monroe being a 11-12ppg role player who didnt even make the ASG for 3 years, and Doc had people asking where the real Doctor J went and if he was overrated all along.

Bosh is gonna go from 23/9 50 games under .500 to being a multiple time champion on the most famous team of his era.

I suppose you could compare it to a monroe if Bosh had ever won anything. But generally speaking I think Boshs standing in history rises by going to the Heat.

Its like if Mcdyess were traded from Denver to the Lakers in 1999. Sure he does from ALL nba 21/11 star of his own team to being a distant #3. But in 30 years people would remember him being on that dynasty. Nobody is gonna know dudes name in 30 years now.

Though I suppose there is the Glen Rice possibility. Star to role player on a champion and people forget you were even there.

But I dont see it. Bosh went from good but nobody has reason to remember it to good on a famous dynasty. I think he wins long term. There was nothing but more losing for him in Toronto.

[chips93]

Lamar Odom. The guy has that superstar game but he is very unselfish to a fault. If he was a little bit assertive, he would have consistent numbers and probably made the All Star team at least once.

i think odom just doesnt have the aggression to he a great player, not neccessarily excessively unselfish

[Iceman#44]

Good, very good post. All true, especially on Earl The Pearl.


Monroe scores 24.3, 25.8, 23.4 and 21.4 ppg in his first 4 years in the League, including 22.1 ppg in 70-71 playoffs when he plays in the Finals with the Bullets. Then he won a title with the Knicks in 73 scoring just 14-15 points x game and nobody cares about him. Very sad.

And i always think about that 69-70 season for Wilt, when he broke his knee...
With the Lakers coach asking him to score again in big numbers, he was averaging 32.2 ppg, then his knee left him. Damn, im sure it would be one of his greatest season ever!

[embersyc]

Sheed Wallace deserves a mention in this thread.