What would you do if your teenage daughter got pregnant?

[HardwoodLegend]

For you to make that claim, you need to identify the exact moment when this transition occurs. If you can precisely point out the moment at which something is a human being then you might have an argument.

I already have an argument, because there are medical methods to determine these moments. There's a generally defined time of viability, but of course it will vary from pregnancy to pregnancy and there are medical methods to determine when the moment is.

Come up with your own insult. You're essentially saying "Nuh-uh, YOU are!

Not one for coming up with insults, but the fact that you are the faraway leader in emotionally charged replies for this thread makes it seem that you throwing out that label is nothing more than projection.

You're concerned for civic structure eh? So you like a society that disregards the rights of humans? Okay whatever pal, keep fighting for your dystopia. Your moronic view of life, that it requires material wealth in order to have worth, is despicable.

Dystopia? There's nothing about allowing women to have abortion as a last resort that makes this society a dystopia. Even though I wouldn't condone the policy today as I personally find it cruel and morally offensive, Sparta wasn't even a dystopia for casting off genetically unfit newborns into a chasm.

I'm all for human rights. We simply disagree on what we define a human as. Earlier you've already conceded that I have an argument when it comes to the issue of viability anyway.

It's surprising to me that you aren't able to see how criminalizing abortion could result in some dystopian effects of its own.

[HarryCallahan]

I already have an argument, because there are medical methods to determine these moments. There's a generally defined time of viability, but of course it will vary from pregnancy to pregnancy and there are medical methods to determine when the moment is.

Not one for coming up with insults, but the fact that you are the faraway leader in emotionally charged replies for this thread makes it seem that you throwing out that label is nothing more than projection.

Dystopia? There's nothing about allowing women to have abortion as a last resort that makes this society a dystopia. Even though I wouldn't condone the policy today as I personally find it cruel and morally offensive, Sparta wasn't even a dystopia for casting off genetically unfit newborns into a chasm.

I'm all for human rights. We simply disagree on what we define a human as. Earlier you've already conceded that I have an argument when it comes to the issue of viability anyway.

It's surprising to me that you aren't able to see how criminalizing abortion could result in some dystopian effects of its own.

Does viability make something human? Just because something isn't human, does that mean it's alright to kill it? Is an "unviable fetus" higher or lower on the pecking order than say an orangutan? Is it alright to kill an orangutan?

Projection? Come on buddy "bleeding heart liberal" is a common term of derision. I substitute "lefty" for "liberal" because lefties and progressives aren't actually liberal. I substituted cvnt for heart because it's more derisory. Try harder Siegmund Fraud.

There would of course be a downside to criminalizing abortions, but I don't think there needs to be anti-abortion laws. Murder and manslaughter are already there, reckless endangerment could all be used to prosecute people.
Murder for late, late-term abortions, manslaughter for anything over say 22weeks , reckless endangerment for anything say 8+weeks. This is just a very general outline and should not be taken too literally.

Of course there would be some difficulties if every unwanted child is born, but they are far out-weighed b the situation today.

[niko]

I'd take you more seriously if you didn't say that the worst a pregnant woman could get from carrying a child or birth was a "bleeding ****". You act like the whole act of carrying the child and giving birth is something that isn't any sort of issue for the mother in any case.

[HarryCallahan]

I'd take you more seriously if you didn't say that the worst a pregnant woman could get from carrying a child or birth was a "bleeding ****". You act like the whole act of carrying the child and giving birth is something that isn't any sort of issue for the mother in any case.

Actually I said "torn cvnt," but regardless I was being facetious you lack-wit. I've already told you that was a facetious remark.

I may take you more seriously if you had the ability to read.

[niko]

Actually I said "torn cvnt," but regardless I was being facetious you lack-wit. I've already told you that was a facetious remark.

I may take you more seriously if you had the ability to read.

When you say something stupid and then say "oh no i was joking" to cover it up it doesn't make the initial remark any less stupid nor does it require everyone to accept the lame explanation.

I think a very early abortion is acceptable. I don't think people who don't want the child (at that point) and can't raise it in an acceptable way should be forced to have it. You think that the moment conception occurs it should be impossible to do so. We disagree.

However with your opinion you need to get some compassion for the woman who you talk about like they aren't really part of the process, like the process is not in their body, like it's something they get no discomfort no possible issues from.

If you were being facetious (which i doubt) it was still a very callous and telling remark IMO.

[HarryCallahan]

When you say something stupid and then say "oh no i was joking" to cover it up it doesn't make the initial remark any less stupid nor does it require everyone to accept the lame explanation.

I think a very early abortion is acceptable. I don't think people who don't want the child (at that point) and can't raise it in an acceptable way should be forced to have it. You think that the moment conception occurs it should be impossible to do so. We disagree.

However with your opinion you need to get some compassion for the woman who you talk about like they aren't really part of the process, like the process is not in their body, like it's something they get no discomfort no possible issues from.

If you were being facetious (which i doubt) it was still a very callous and telling remark IMO.

It was obviously an attempt at crude humour, I have put a lot of thought into my stance on abortion, this should be plainly obvious and no one with half a brain would think that a "torn cvnt" is the worst thing to happen during child birth. That this all alludes you is astounding.

Let me be very clear you apparently illiterate idiot; I do not now, nor have I ever believed that life begins at conception, I have said this NUMEROUS times in this thread. I have had to correct someone on this TWICE in three pages.

I don't believe that life begins at conception, and have not ever stated that I do.

But hey, anyone who doesn't like abortion must be from the Westboro Baptist Church right?

If you have sex, you assume all responsibilities emanating from that act. Whether they be; venereal disease, children, emotional entanglements. Any issues they have are their own damn fault.

You can doubt me all you want. I'm being truthful. You calling me "callous" is ridiculous considering the things you have said about your hypothetical grandchildren and your daughter.

[CanYouDigIt]

[niko]

It was obviously an attempt at crude humour, I have put a lot of thought into my stance on abortion, this should be plainly obvious and no one with half a brain would think that a "torn cvnt" is the worst thing to happen during child birth. That this all alludes you is astounding.

Let me be very clear you apparently illiterate idiot; I do not now, nor have I ever believed that life begins at conception, I have said this NUMEROUS times in this thread. I have had to correct you on this TWICE you fvcking spastic.

If you have sex, you assume all responsibilities emanating from that act. Whether they be; venereal disease, children, emotional entanglements. Any issues they have are their own damn fault.

You can doubt me all you want. I'm being truthful. You calling me "callous" is ridiculous considering the things you have said about your hypothetical grandchildren and your daughter.

You said the worst thing the mom would get from childbirth is a "torn ****". You don't give a **** about the mom at all. I do. I care about my daughter and her future more than the collection of cells at that point. When it's bigger, when it's no longer first trimester, it's too late IMO. But at that early point my daughter, my wife, etc. is more important.

And as much as I love my kids, if you told me 8 months in that if my wife gave birth she'd die, I wouldn't make her have the baby. She is more important than someone who has yet to be born.

To you, the fetus is the be all and end all. It's not. There's a mom too. And making a joke about all she needs to worry about is her torn **** is callous and ridiculous. If you want to recant, recant but stop pretending it was some funny joke.

You have clearly no clue about pregnancy or childbirth, it's just a concept to you, the concept of abortion being evil is what you think about, it has nothing to do with people at all. Unless they are the unborn fetus.

Sorry, you can argue with other people now. I'm not "pro anything", i'm just realistic because life involves real people and not just concepts.

[HarryCallahan]

You said the worst thing the mom would get from childbirth is a "torn ****". You don't give a **** about the mom at all. I do. I care about my daughter and her future more than the collection of cells at that point. When it's bigger, when it's no longer first trimester, it's too late IMO. But at that early point my daughter, my wife, etc. is more important.

And as much as I love my kids, if you told me 8 months in that if my wife gave birth she'd die, I wouldn't make her have the baby. She is more important than someone who has yet to be born.

To you, the fetus is the be all and end all. It's not. There's a mom too. And making a joke about all she needs to worry about is her torn **** is callous and ridiculous. If you want to recant, recant but stop pretending it was some funny joke.

You have clearly no clue about pregnancy or childbirth, it's just a concept to you, the concept of abortion being evil is what you think about, it has nothing to do with people at all. Unless they are the unborn fetus.

Sorry, you can argue with other people now. I'm not "pro anything", i'm just realistic because life involves real people and not just concepts.

Nice straw man argument. If the mother is in danger, I believe aborting the pregnancy should be an option. This is morally the same as killing an intruder in your home. That is the only time when killing is acceptable; when it is in order to save another life.
That really is typical of you isn't it? Attributing false beliefs to someone else, just so you can argue with them.

If you don't find it humorous, well there's nothing I can do about that. It's something called "black humour" that you found it offensive is inconsequential.

You're done with this thread? Just like you were done on page5? You're a scum-bag and not very bright. Like I said earlier, I hope to God your children turn out nothing like you.

[Rick James]

Niko, do you have daughter in real life?

[Brunch@Five]

Having a baby as a teen, whether keeping it or giving it up for adoption are two options that are going to be hugely stressful on the young girl. I'm glad my daughter will have other options than you'd give your kids.

Also having a baby (the physical toll) is no joke. If the woman doesn't want to carry the baby, thinking she'd be practically forced to is a bit concerning to me. We are valuing the potential of life over the actual person alive.

having an abortion is no joke either. Physical health risks are probably lower than actually bearing the child, but there are tons of women who had an abortion who later are torn psychologically. Either way it's am extremely difficult situation and decision to make.
Also, that decision is not a rational one to make. It depends on the girl/the woman. There can be all kinds of rational arguments, but if at some point the mother feels like she has "her baby" in her womb, she will feel about an abortion as murder. That's not a rational process, it's almost purely emotional.
Which is why you can't have anyone decide for a mother, or pressure her into what is "rational" or "socially expected behaviour". It's entirely the mother's decision, depending on her feelings to the fetus/child in her womb.

pro-choice vs pro-life is not a debate anyone is ever going to win. It's a personal decision, and you should tolerate either stance. It's not for society to decide what a mother does with her unborn child/fetus.


What I would do as a father: support her without reservation and have her know that I love and respect her whatever decision she makes. I will help her make the decision, provide information, go to the doctor's with her.
If young parents get decent support from their own parents (and friends), it's not a dire situation and can turn out very well.

[niko]

having an abortion is no joke either. Physical health risks are probably lower than actually bearing the child, but there are tons of women who had an abortion who later are torn psychologically. Either way it's am extremely difficult situation and decision to make.
Also, that decision is not a rational one to make. It depends on the girl/the woman. There can be all kinds of rational arguments, but if at some point the mother feels like she has "her baby" in her womb, she will feel about an abortion as murder. That's not a rational process, it's almost purely emotional.
Which is why you can't have anyone decide for a mother, or pressure her into what is "rational" or "socially expected behaviour". It's entirely the mother's decision, depending on her feelings to the fetus/child in her womb.

pro-choice vs pro-life is not a debate anyone is ever going to win. It's a personal decision, and you should tolerate either stance. It's not for society to decide what a mother does with her unborn child/fetus.


What I would do as a father: support her without reservation and have her know that I love and respect her whatever decision she makes. I will help her make the decision, provide information, go to the doctor's with her.
If young parents get decent support from their own parents (and friends), it's not a dire situation and can turn out very well.

I'd recommend the abortion TBH but I wouldn't push in either direction and support just like you. To me that's logical.

[Dresta]

I already have an argument, because there are medical methods to determine these moments. There's a generally defined time of viability, but of course it will vary from pregnancy to pregnancy and there are medical methods to determine when the moment is.




Not one for coming up with insults, but the fact that you are the faraway leader in emotionally charged replies for this thread makes it seem that you throwing out that label is nothing more than projection.


Dystopia? There's nothing about allowing women to have abortion as a last resort that makes this society a dystopia. Even though I wouldn't condone the policy today as I personally find it cruel and morally offensive, Sparta wasn't even a dystopia for casting off genetically unfit newborns into a chasm.

I'm all for human rights. We simply disagree on what we define a human as. Earlier you've already conceded that I have an argument when it comes to the issue of viability anyway.

It's surprising to me that you aren't able to see how criminalizing abortion could result in some dystopian effects of its own.

Except abortion isn't a 'last resort' - it tends to be the first one (as the answers to this thread have generally shown). But the Spartans at lease got rid of children because they were defective and not a random child (who could potentially be a genius) because they wanted less personal hardship.

Sparta wasn't called a dystopia because it was in the past, and a dystopia is an imagined world, not a real one. But i assure you that if someone wrote a book about how our society gradually became like the Spartan one, then it would be a dystopian novel.