"He carried the team on his back to a ring"

[Harison]

Thinking about it I may give Duncan 03. Manu was doing like 7ppg and showing up now and then. Parker was getting benched for Speedy Claxton in the 4th. Drob was Drob in name only.

Meanwhile Duncan is giving the Lakers like 38/16 knocking them out and giving out near 20/20 quadruple doubles in the finals?

vs LA Game2, Duncan had just 12 points, while "scrubs" were blowing out prime Shaq and Kobe out of the water. Duncan did have a great series (not as great though as KG vs same LA the series before) and Playoffs run in general, so I give him a lot of respect for that. It was more impressive than any championship Kobe or Lebron had.
Nets though didnt had a frontline to speak off, and they were a weak team for a Finalist, so its not surprising Duncan was beasting on them. Real Finals were vs Lakers.

Was that as impressive as Dream or Barry runs? No.

[Kblaze8855]

Kenyon Martin was one of the best man to man defensive bigmen in the league by then.

And he had 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 7 assists in 33 minutes in a blowout win he took 10 shots in. That you take that performance as a way to downplay his efforts that year says enough.

He was a total player. He wasnt always out to score. He had a couple other sub 16 point games that playoffs too. And by a couple I literally mean 2.

In those two games he had 11 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks and 15 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 4 blocks.

Not bad for his 3 lowest scoring nights of the playoffs.

[VIntageNOvel]

vs LA Game2, Duncan had just 12 points, while "scrubs" were blowing out prime Shaq and Kobe out of the water. Duncan did have a great series (not as great though as KG vs same LA the series before) and Playoffs run in general, so I give him a lot of respect for that. It was more impressive than any championship Kobe or Lebron had.

Nets though didnt had a frontline to speak off, and they were a weak team for a Finalist, so its not surprising Duncan was beasting on them. Real Finals were vs Lakers.

this!
just like how 2001 WCF vs spurs is the real final

[ripthekik]

Well fans of the last 2 years probably won't understand this as it didn't happen.

[Harison]

Kenyon Martin was one of the best man to man defensive bigmen in the league by then.

And he had 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 7 assists in 33 minutes in a blowout win he took 10 shots in. That you take that performance as a way to downplay his efforts that year says enough.

He was a total player. He wasnt always out to score. He had a couple other sub 16 point games that playoffs too. And by a couple I literally mean 2.

In those two games he had 11 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks and 15 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 4 blocks.

Not bad for his 3 lowest scoring nights of the playoffs.

Are you really claiming K-Mart 6-9" was an elite match-up for Duncan? Really? Nets were weak Finalist (fact), and while K-Mart was a solid player, neither his production nor impact was nowhere near Duncan's (fact).

[Rose'sACL]

hakeem, duncan and wade have the best case .

[DMAVS41]

Hakeem 94 and Duncan 03

To a lesser extent Dirk 11 and Wade 06

[Kblaze8855]

If you think prime Kmart wasnt a great man to man defender we just didnt watch the same guy. Hes a good defender the last few years as well.

The nets were a weak finals team relative to the west....but the Spurs beat the west to get there so who exactly were they gonna get beat by anyway?

And not being peak Tim Duncan doesnt mean Kmart wasnt a good defensive player. Kmart put up 19/9 with 2 blocks and 2 steals a game in the 03 playoffs. He had one of the worst games of all time in game 6 but he was hardly a nobody.

Kmart, Jefferson, and Collins were never elite players but nobody ever said they couldnt play defense. They were good enough that a claim they had no frontcourt at all so a they should be dominated inside is just not true.

Kenyon played fine defense on Duncan the way I remember it.

[Eric Cartman]

Dwyane Wade won with the least help of any championship team EVER. Granted the team that he defeated (Mavericks) wasn't all that impressive outside of Dirk and maybe Terry but still.

Antoine Walker and Shaq average 13 points while Wade averaged 34 points and 7.8 rebounds with 2 steals a game.

Also look at the shooting percentages of the role players. Absolutely pathetic.

[Harison]

If you think prime Kmart wasnt a great man to man defender we just didnt watch the same guy. Hes a good defender the last few years as well.

Its never black or white. K-Mart wasnt "nobody", but he obviously wasnt elite, nor one of the best defensive bigs in NBA. Without him there were pretty much nobody else to speak off in frontline either, Richardson? Never was a great defender. Aaron or Collins? Please.

The nets were a weak finals team relative to the west....but the Spurs beat the west to get there so who exactly were they gonna get beat by anyway?

Precisely why I said real Finals were vs Lakers.

And not being peak Tim Duncan doesnt mean Kmart wasnt a good defensive player. Kmart put up 19/9 with 2 blocks and 2 steals a game in the 03 playoffs. He had one of the worst games of all time in game 6 but he was hardly a nobody.

Kmart, Jefferson, and Collins were never elite players but nobody ever said they couldnt play defense. They were good enough that a claim they had no frontcourt at all so a they should be dominated inside is just not true.

Kenyon played fine defense on Duncan the way I remember it.

K-Mart had 14.7/10 in the Finals, and Duncan did whatever he wanted with him, same as on others in "great Nets frontline" They had no chance against Spurs, and no answer in any shape of form against Duncan.

[SCdac]

Tim Duncan in 2003 for sure... and even 1999, his second season in the league, he was the youngest starter and lead a team full of veterans to a championship and had some huge series.

In the 99 Finals, Duncan averaged 46 mpg and against the '03 Nets average 44 mpg...

Having prime Duncan on the floor for that long

[Kblaze8855]

So tell me...who were the better man to man defenders among 4s in the NBA at the time? Who were the better defenders Duncan could have been facing?

KG of course.

Who else we talking about?

And if the real finals was vs the Lakers how does that even matter when they beat them too?

And a 14/10 average? Eh. He had 21/12, 14/5/4, 23/11/3/3, and 20/13/3/3 aside from the low scoring games .

But nobody is comparing him to Duncan anyway.

But its not like anyone else did shit to stop Tim.

His last 10 games vs the west he put up

28/11
36/9/5
27/14/5
37/16/4
40/15/7
32/15/5
34/24/6/6
21/20/7/4
23/15/6
18/11/4

He put up 28 a game vs the Lakers and Mavs and shot 57 and 53% doing it but when he puts up 24 on 50% in the finals its because the lowly east had nobody to stop him?

The Nets defended him fine.

[La Frescobaldi]

Have you ever heard of one of these guys besides Rick Barry?


24 Rick Barry
21 Butch Beard
22 Steve Bracey
32 Bill Bridges
40 Derrek Dickey
15 Charles Dudley
10 Charles Johnson
52 George Johnson
34 Frank Kendrick
23 Jeff Mullins
44 Clifford Ray
20 Phil Smith
41 Jamaal Wilkes

Even Jamaal Wilkes was a rookie and was still getting NBA schooled clear into the Finals. Cliff Ray has been a fine center coach for many seasons but he wasn't all that as a player and actually many thought George Johnson was really what tipped them over to get into the Finals. Whoever heard of him?

Barry was it, he was about all they had. He saw double teams, triple teams, dude got pounded hard every night by guys like Bob Lanier, Al Eberhard and Kermit Washington for a whole season to achieve what he did.

That said, even those guys, those Warriors played their guts out to win it all!! That comeback against a great Bulls team in the playoffs was an incredible feat. They faced down Norm van Lier, Jerry Sloan, Boerwinkle, Chet the Jet and beat em coming back. Just like Hakeem's teammates did in '94 - somehow the greatness of their leader puts a fire in their belly that normally couldn't ever be seen.

[Harison]

So tell me...who were the better man to man defenders among 4s in the NBA at the time? Who were the better defenders Duncan could have been facing?

KG of course.

Who else we talking about?

Since we were speaking about frontlines, Big Ben, KG, Timmy, Meta, Doug Christie, Bruce Bowen, Ratliff, heck even throw Shaq into mix. Against whom KMart was better or more impactful defensively? Maybe few names at the end of the list, and even thats doubtful. Tail-end Top10 defender among frountcourts is neither elite nor "one of the best", that was my point.

And if the real finals was vs the Lakers how does that even matter when they beat them too?

Competition matters when evaluating championship runs. Compare path of Hakeem '94 and TD '03, and you'll see what I mean (if you want to see, of course).

And a 14/10 average? Eh. He had 21/12, 14/5/4, 23/11/3/3, and 20/13/3/3 aside from the low scoring games .

Whats the point of cherry-picking few good games if we are speaking about KMarts overall contribution? Average at least serves the point. Like I could pick GM6 where KMart scored 6 points on 3/23 shooting and laugh him off the building with his 13% FG "what a crappy player he is". He isnt crappy, neither he is an elite player, on neither side of the floor, and thats the best frontline player Nets had

He put up 28 a game vs the Lakers and Mavs and shot 57 and 53% doing it but when he puts up 24 on 50% in the finals its because the lowly east had nobody to stop him?

The Nets defended him fine.

It wasnt the impression I had when watched it, Duncan like feasted on them. Sure maybe he had few less points than vs LA, but he had also 5 extra rebounds, what does it say about Nets frontline? For example vs Suns (even you wont argue Suns werent great defensive team) Duncan averaged 18.7 points. At least Nets were good defensively as a team, just hardly on frontline, thats where Duncan did his damage (considerably more than vs Suns).

[Pointguard]

Kenyon Martin was one of the best man to man defensive bigmen in the league by then.

And he had 12 points, 13 rebounds, and 7 assists in 33 minutes in a blowout win he took 10 shots in. That you take that performance as a way to downplay his efforts that year says enough.

He was a total player. He wasnt always out to score. He had a couple other sub 16 point games that playoffs too. And by a couple I literally mean 2.

In those two games he had 11 points, 23 rebounds, 6 assists, and 3 blocks and 15 points, 20 rebounds, 10 assists, and 4 blocks.

Not bad for his 3 lowest scoring nights of the playoffs.

Refs didn't allow KMart to play Duncan at all. He got two fouls early in every game and was in foul trouble the whole series until the last game. In the regular season Kenyon was holding Duncan under 500% shooting most of the time around that time. But this doesn't take away from the fact that Duncan had one of the best individual playoff runs by an individual ever to me. Right behind Hakeem's first run.

I read that Rick Barry was also very clutch in his run in addition to his heavy scoring burden in '75. In the final game, after being in a skirmish where the coach Al Attles took the brawl for Barry, Barry went on a scoring spree after the melee. He also lead his team in assist and steals throughout the playoffs.

I think the crazy amount of FG taken by Barry were in his first finals run against Philly and not his championship year?