What the hell are "empty stats"?

[DMAVS41]

His numbers weren't even THAT great, though. 20/8 on bad efficiency for his position without much of a defensive presence. You think he wasn't even that? Give the guy his credit, man.

Well...20/8 is not something done that is routine, but he put up better numbers than that.

Had many seasons better than that. I'm pretty sure he had a 21/10/2 season in Washington...

[moe94]

Well...20/8 is not something done that is routine, but he put up better numbers than that.

Had many seasons better than that. I'm pretty sure he had a 21/10/2 season in Washington...

I know. I was talking his career. Still, that should answer your question as to why his stats appear empty and without impact. Wizards were/are horrific.

[magnax1]

I don't know about empty, but the impact of, for example, Kevin Love...is not line with his numbers....

25/14/4 58% TS should be making more of an impact. The Wolves are 11-12...with the kind of help he has...the record should just be way better than that. Now, it's early this year, but if the Wolves don't win around 50 ...you have to start questioning his true impact.

They are a really good team talent wise with a very good to great coach...

Too many guys at that position in history would be easily winning 50 or more games on that Wolves this year...


I think I saw someone mention it earlier, but Antawn Jamison is probably the poster boy for empty stats imo of this era...

Yeah, I was going to bring up Kevin love too. IDK about Jamison. Nobody thinks of him as anything more than a third option. He put up 20-10 on mediocre shooting for 13 years with no defense. No one thinks he was a first option or anything. Just very consistent

[Owl]

I agree with this mostly...that is why I said I'm not sure about "empty stats"

My point was that a guy like Jamison is nowhere near as valuable as his numbers suggest.

Yeah it can just be semantics. That's why I took your phrase "impact ... not in line with numbers" as something reasonable and a basis for explaining why that might be the case. A player can have less impact than you would expect from his numbers (by having worse non-boxscore impact than you would expect, or even negative non-boxscore impact). But I believe that people throw rhetoric around like "empty stats" just to attack stats because they don't want anything concrete with which we can compare players, just their "expert" opinions.

FWIW with Love, the T'Wolves points differential is +3.61 points per game, and that's against a difficult schedule. Typically a such a team would have a better record. If they just perform up to their points diff they should be a solid playoff team, if they develop a bench, or Pekovic gets back where he was the last 2 years (usage, %s and rebounds all down this year) they could become semi-contenders.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah it can just be semantics. That's why I took your phrase "impact ... not in line with numbers" as something reasonable and a basis for explaining why that might be the case. A player can have less impact than you would expect from his numbers (by having worse non-boxscore impact than you would expect, or even negative non-boxscore impact). But I believe that people throw rhetoric around like "empty stats" just to attack stats because they don't want anything concrete with which we can compare players, just their "expert" opinions.

FWIW with Love, the T'Wolves points differential is +3.61 points per game, and that's against a difficult schedule. Typically a such a team would have a better record. If they just perform up to their points diff they should be a solid playoff team, if they develop a bench, or Pekovic gets back where he was the last 2 years (usage, %s and rebounds all down this year) they could become semi-contenders.

Well said...completely agree.

With Love, I think it's fair to say that if they miss the playoffs...his "impact" needs to be questioned in terms of any company he finds himself in by putting up those numbers.

Take current Dirk. I'm just still not sure if Love impacts the game more than current Dirk in terms of winning. I think both teams are pretty close overall in strength...certainly with Martin playing as well as he has so far. So the sample is small right now and the schedule has been tough...I'm just not sure Love is any more valuable than old Dirk.