Philosophical Question

[ROCSteady]

OP, I'm not inquiring to be disrespectful or to reveal something you don't wish to reveal to this board of wolves. In fact, I enjoy the abstract things you post and the analysis to bring to such heavy topics but I have a question that I would like you to answer...

Are you in therapy? Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric condition in which you take medication for?

I'm only curious because I am trying to correlate certain types of thought processes and what the genesis of them are. My instincts and life experience tell me that people that ponder these types of matters intently have a prior mindset that may be prone to psychiatric conditions.

Again, not trying to disrespect you whatsoever, just genuinely curious.

[-p.tiddy-]

So almost dying provides the people with the knowledge of how humans will evolve? Come on man that's so ridiculous.

Supposedly there is no "time" in the after life, that only exists here... Past, present, and future all exist at once, they claim everything has already played itself out, we are just going through it like watching a movie. Some say they have seen the big bang repeat itself a million times over... Its endless, eternal, etc

"We" created it, we designed it...for us

[miller-time]

"We" created it, we designed it...for us

Do you mean like consciousness is the universe experiencing itself?

[Swaggin916]

Evolution is an unguided process though. There is no will or end result. Any animal alive today is as evolved as we are. It is all about survival not about reaching some higher point of physical or mental ability.

Understood and I agree that's all very chaotic, but to think that we are the only conscious being... I mean how can we be conscious and the universe not? It's just not making any sense to me anymore. At one point I was fine with everything being random and chaotic and it not meaning anything and I still would be - It's not like I need for there to be any purpose, but I feel like I am piecing together the puzzle more and more as I read and reflect and this direction I find myself going.

OP, I'm not inquiring to be disrespectful or to reveal something you don't wish to reveal to this board of wolves. In fact, I enjoy the abstract things you post and the analysis to bring to such heavy topics but I have a question that I would like you to answer...

Are you in therapy? Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric condition in which you take medication for?

I'm only curious because I am trying to correlate certain types of thought processes and what the genesis of them are. My instincts and life experience tell me that people that ponder these types of matters intently have a prior mindset that may be prone to psychiatric conditions.

Again, not trying to disrespect you whatsoever, just genuinely curious.

Fair question but no I have never been diagnosed with anything nor have I taken medication. The genesis of these thought processes has been ignited through the revelation of consciousness. Ever since then, I just literally can't learn enough. I am that guy reading a book and then putting it down for a second in the middle of reading and going "No.... freaking... way!" because lightbulbs are just going berserk and my mind is being blown. It gives me an immense amount of pleasure to explore and make a discovery (Even if it's just reading another person's work hey it's new to me... I discovered their discovery). This passion has definitely lead to a stronger brain more capable of reasoning and connecting things... I was run almost completely by my senses and emotion up until that point of consciousness. I have always been a thinker (thought definitely is my drug of choice), but most of it before was tied in with that sensitivity and those emotions... Now it's much more free. I am becoming more of a realist, but I am definitely still a dreamer so many of my ideas will be abstract and ambitious, but I feel like that's a good thing. It's good to be ambitious, but one must be able to connect the dots along the way.

I am not sure what experiences you have had though to wonder if I have had any psychiatric issues... but I can see how one might think that, especially on a message board where you don't know people in person. Is this type of thinking really that abnormal though? Like to the point where when you talk about people question if you are nuts? Because that's kind of sad. I remember what it was like to not really think much about life and while everything seems fine, there is so much knowledge and wisdom you are robbing yourself of. Anytime I am not searching I am robbing myself I feel... but hey I am human and I have other things I like and I only have so much energy. What works for me won't work for everybody though I understand that, but this is stuff is so damn interesting. It's like some Carl Sagan spiritual science shit... it's a trip.

[Budadiiii]

OP, I'm not inquiring to be disrespectful or to reveal something you don't wish to reveal to this board of wolves. In fact, I enjoy the abstract things you post and the analysis to bring to such heavy topics but I have a question that I would like you to answer...

Are you in therapy? Have you ever been diagnosed with a psychiatric condition in which you take medication for?

I'm only curious because I am trying to correlate certain types of thought processes and what the genesis of them are. My instincts and life experience tell me that people that ponder these types of matters intently have a prior mindset that may be prone to psychiatric conditions.

Again, not trying to disrespect you whatsoever, just genuinely curious.

Over-analyzing usually comes with extra free time and not being content with social status. I don't think theres a correlation between this and mental illness, why do you say that?

He's pondering the same stuff we all do. Maybe taking himself a bit too serious in the process but what was the motive behind that comment?

[miller-time]

Understood and I agree that's all very chaotic, but to think that we are the only conscious being... I mean how can we be conscious and the universe not? It's just not making any sense to me anymore. At one point I was fine with everything being random and chaotic and it not meaning anything and I still would be - It's not like I need for there to be any purpose, but I feel like I am piecing together the puzzle more and more as I read and reflect and this direction I find myself going.

I'd argue that plenty of other animals such as chimpanzees and elephants demonstrate consciousness. We are able to think much more abstractly than other animals but we are not the only animals able to self realize or reflect and show empathy towards issues such as death and injury.

We are part of the universe so in a sense the universe is conscious. But as far as we can tell consciousness can only arise through certain structures (brains and neural networks). Any old physical object can't have consciousness because they don't have the working parts to allow for consciousness to arise. Asking why the universe doesn't have consciousness is the same as asking why an atom doesn't have consciousness - it isn't structured in such a way to allow consciousness to manifest.

As I said to PT maybe we are the conscious part of the universe that allows it to experience itself? Without an observer maybe the universe behaves differently (sort of like the observer effect - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc) and therefore the emergence of consciousness creates a necessary equilibrium. I doubt it but I think it is a more grounded idea than looking towards religious awakening types of ideas.

[Swaggin916]

Over-analyzing usually comes with extra free time and not being content with social status. I don't think theres a correlation between this and mental illness, why do you say that?

He's pondering the same stuff we all do. Maybe taking himself a bit too serious in the process but what was the motive behind that comment?

I think you are pretty spot on with that man... Being a single guy with no kids or huge commitments gives me a lot of time to think and ponder. It's a phase I am sure but one I am enjoying atm. I think there is a lot to the social status thing as well. For the longest time I wanted to be cool and thought of as cool by everyone... always looking for approval and aiming to please. I think by not going to college, I lost steam and didn't form any new relationships (I still hang out with all the people I went to High School with) I didn't fit in well with the blue collar working class at my job either because I wasn't an adult yet and had dreams of doing something I loved. It was fine don't get me wrong, but now I see that it was just an act. That whole social thing is an act and the higher you go the more political it gets. I have worked parties for a very wealthy man and all the high to do people are there... Some are really cool and never got caught up in the hooplah, but some are very stand offish and you feel the class disparity being a server. I never really found a place to fit in... but that's cool I feeling more and more like I don't need one. I can just be kind of a floater. But yea I'm not psychotic... not yet

I also feel that while a lot of people would say I over analyze things, I think i analyze just the right amount for me. I think anything that you go through is stuff that needs going through.

[ROCSteady]

Over-analyzing usually comes with extra free time and not being content with social status. I don't think theres a correlation between this and mental illness, why do you say that?

He's pondering the same stuff we all do. Maybe taking himself a bit too serious in the process but what was the motive behind that comment?

Not really mental illness just more of a frenzied mindset that could lead to like counseling or clinical mental health 'tests'. A lot of times counseling 'tests' tells people that in some way shape or form they need to be medicated, whether it is foolproof or not. Granted, not everyone in counseling needs medication but the field seems prone to find ways to restore chemical shit despite the severity or necessity of one's discontentment or disenchantment of cold, hard reality.

[ROCSteady]

Fair question but no I have never been diagnosed with anything nor have I taken medication. The genesis of these thought processes has been ignited through the revelation of consciousness. Ever since then, I just literally can't learn enough. I am that guy reading a book and then putting it down for a second in the middle of reading and going "No.... freaking... way!" because lightbulbs are just going berserk and my mind is being blown. It gives me an immense amount of pleasure to explore and make a discovery (Even if it's just reading another person's work hey it's new to me... I discovered their discovery). This passion has definitely lead to a stronger brain more capable of reasoning and connecting things... I was run almost completely by my senses and emotion up until that point of consciousness. I have always been a thinker (thought definitely is my drug of choice), but most of it before was tied in with that sensitivity and those emotions... Now it's much more free. I am becoming more of a realist, but I am definitely still a dreamer so many of my ideas will be abstract and ambitious, but I feel like that's a good thing. It's good to be ambitious, but one must be able to connect the dots along the way.

I am not sure what experiences you have had though to wonder if I have had any psychiatric issues... but I can see how one might think that, especially on a message board where you don't know people in person. Is this type of thinking really that abnormal though? Like to the point where when you talk about people question if you are nuts? Because that's kind of sad. I remember what it was like to not really think much about life and while everything seems fine, there is so much knowledge and wisdom you are robbing yourself of. Anytime I am not searching I am robbing myself I feel... but hey I am human and I have other things I like and I only have so much energy. What works for me won't work for everybody though I understand that, but this is stuff is so damn interesting. It's like some Carl Sagan spiritual science shit... it's a trip.

Thanks for your earnestness. No your thinking isn't abnormal or anything too revolutionary, although def more impressive than the bland mindset of people in public, or at least what they choose to expose. Usually, the people I've encountered that express these types of thoughts that are prevalently heavy or deeply introspective to either the human condition or origin of the species are not content. Sometimes this is within their own life path or just what they observe from their contemporary peers.

The sheer nature of the abstract and subjective approach to questions without concrete answers can be very burdensome and daunting so if one places a high priority in what is somewhat never going to be answered fully it can make for one troubled soul. Of course, high percentages of general public we encounter either never come across these cognitive paths or don't care enough to explore them fully.

I've noticed that not being able to have these conversations reciprocated can cause people to withdraw as they cannot relate to the mundane worries and stresses of many peers. Often this can lead to loneliness or depression. As mentioned above, the partaking in counseling can be a slippery slope to being medicated or being called conditions in the psychiatric or mental health field that may or may not apply when even professionals don;t know how to handle a certain thought process.

[Swaggin916]

@miller-time - Mostly it's just our culture. I wouldn't be as conscious as I am now if it wasn't for others. Other animals don't have the benefit of that... They can only go so far without being able to communicate verbally. If I lived on an island alone my whole life my consciousness would probably be like that of an elephant or chimp lol. All of these ideas from our ancestors have sparked all this abstract thought.

Goof point on the universe not being constructed for consciousness because from what we know now, it's not. When you talk about us being the consciousness for the universe that sounds a lot like masculine and feminine energy... Masculine being the witness, and feminine being the movement. That idea is basically what I am saying. I don't think hominids were chosen to be the consciousness, we just happened to become it. Things go differently - or maybe the environment is a bit different, maybe it's horses. Who knows. Surely the universe must have been designed that way though... for witnesses to exist so that it could experience itself. So either there is a source for us to find, or we are the source. Sound logic given that topic?

[Swaggin916]

Thanks for your earnestness. No your thinking isn't abnormal or anything too revolutionary, although def more impressive than the bland mindset of people in public, or at least what they choose to expose. Usually, the people I've encountered that express these types of thoughts that are prevalently heavy or deeply introspective to either the human condition or origin of the species are not content. Sometimes this is within their own life path or just what they observe from their contemporary peers.

The sheer nature of the abstract and subjective approach to questions without concrete answers can be very burdensome and daunting so if one places a high priority in what is somewhat never going to be answered fully it can make for one troubled soul. Of course, high percentages of general public we encounter either never come across these cognitive paths or don't care enough to explore them fully.

I've noticed that not being able to have these conversations reciprocated can cause people to withdraw as they cannot relate to the mundane worries and stresses of many peers. Often this can lead to loneliness or depression. As mentioned above, the partaking in counseling can be a slippery slope to being medicated or being called conditions in the psychiatric or mental health field that may or may not apply when even professionals don;t know how to handle a certain thought process.

Yea I can definitely see how one could slip away a bit and feel alone. I do feel myself not being able to relate to as many people (not that I can't talk about other things... just like you said it's not all that stimulating), but to me it's not a problem because I know there are people out there who do relate and fortunately right now I have a friend who relates to it 100%. We have insanely long and intense conversations at times. I'm not really too attached to finding answers either, I just want to investigate. Going into a field that would allow me to do that and be with likeminded people would be a really good thing.

[miller-time]

@miller-time - Mostly it's just our culture. I wouldn't be as conscious as I am now if it wasn't for others. Other animals don't have the benefit of that... They can only go so far without being able to communicate verbally. If I lived on an island alone my whole life my consciousness would probably be like that of an elephant or chimp lol. All of these ideas from our ancestors have sparked all this abstract thought.

Biologically we have a much higher capacity to learn but animals are able to learn from one another. They just don't have the ability to reach the complexity of ideas that humans are. Chimpanzees have demonstrated culture within their own species. Different groups pass down knowledge of different tools and even customs. Every time we limit what we think animals can do they surprise us. Don't ever be black and white when it comes to the differences between humans and non-human animals :) because somewhere out there there is probably an animal doing what we think they can't.

Goof point on the universe not being constructed for consciousness because from what we know now, it's not. When you talk about us being the consciousness for the universe that sounds a lot like masculine and feminine energy... Masculine being the witness, and feminine being the movement. That idea is basically what I am saying. I don't think hominids were chosen to be the consciousness, we just happened to become it. Things go differently - or maybe the environment is a bit different, maybe it's horses. Who knows. Surely the universe must have been designed that way though... for witnesses to exist so that it could experience itself. So either there is a source for us to find, or we are the source. Sound logic given that topic?

I think this is looking at it backwards. Think of it like water in a hole that forms a puddle. From the perspective of the water it might think that the hole was designed especially for it because it fits around the water perfectly. But we know that isn't the case, we know really that the laws of physics allow the water to conform to whatever shape it sits in. Consciousness is an emergent property of the universe, it exists because we happen to live in a universe that is able to allow it. I don't think the universe exists for consciousness but rather consciousness exists because the universe allows it to.

[Mr. Jabbar]

only kobe knows

[kNIOKAS]

Evolution is simply part of the picture. I don't think Dawkins would say that purpose and evolution can't exist together, but certainly he would say purpose in the contexts of religion couldn't. Any teaching that doesn't accept change is only so relevant. What I am proposing are merely concepts... but concepts which build off science.

I've seen him talk to this religious con artist Chopra, I liked Chopra's arguments more, I felt he wasn't really saying about religion, only about purpose.

oooooh, go on

Yeah well in my understanding evolution advocates change through random mutations and natural selection, which is far from sufficient explanation for what we have now. So to roll with these two shabby mechanisms is to be underequipped, IMO.

I'd argue that plenty of other animals such as chimpanzees and elephants demonstrate consciousness.

Term is not conscious, it's self-awareness, I'd say... Although I get what you mean. But conscious is more like psyche, which every living thing has, supposedly (or maybe not psyche per se, I'm not sure of a word in english).

[Jackass18]

The first is like an intro into Star Trek or something while the 2nd seems to be saying that there's more purpose in death than in life (or even no purpose in life), and is pretty vague. In life, we're all just futilely spinning our tires in place, and then we'll be given all the answers in death.

Are you wondering if the search is worth it?