Kblazes long boring post on offense.

[branslowski]

Reggie Miller being overrated again I see. Never seen a 18ppg 3ast 3reb player be mentioned with the greats like I have with Miller.

[Kblaze8855]

Davis and Ellis did it once

Which has what to do with it? You imply that beating great legends says something of your game. You really think they were capable of it only when it happened or....things just didnt fall right in other times?

The Pistons team with Chauncey never had a clearcut best player so you definitely cant give Billups the credit.

People didnt give Reggie the credit! You are I believe old enough to remember those days.

They were called "Larry Brown and the Pacers". That was when coaches were respected. Larry got more love for some of those wins than Reggie did.

Wasnt very familiar with smith and russell and again they beat a team with Hall of Famers only one time in their careers. Miller did it multiple times while being the face of th Pacers franchise.

Face means nothing to basketball on the floor.

Never knew much about Gus Williams but upon some research he was a pretty good player who had long playoff runs similar to Reggie. Great comparison. too bad injuries cut his playing days short

He had long playoff runs....they were not terribly similar to Reggie. Gus Williams was considered a top player. All nba first team. Led/co led a team to a ring. But that aside....

Its clear what the point was. Using wins over HOF players to act like a lesser player is this or that just doesnt hold up once you look into it and see that it happens all the time.

Happening more than once to one guy doesnt prove a thing except that a solid team stuck together for a while and won a few series. You play like 19 years you are gonna win some series over much better players.

Doesnt mean you cant pretty much be....Joe Johnson. Who...by the way also knocked out hall of famers.

Doesnt mean id trade Deng for him.

[Reggie43]

Multiple hall of fame NBA coaches were saying Reggie wasnt the best player on the Pacers.....

I heard it said by a Bulls announcer early 90s that Detlef was the Pacers best player. It wasnt unheard of for people to say Smits was in the mid 90s. And Mckey is who both Larry Brown and Phil Jackson said were better than Reggie around 95.

I really dont believe basketball people were that impressed by Reggie during his playing days. A lot more in retrospect just....playing nice.

I dont think coaches, gms, and bigtime fans thought he was that great. I know I didnt.....


Reggie isnt someone it makes sense to play the "You dont remember...." card with.

He was less highly regarded in his prime than by people looking back. Plenty of players were getting chosen by coaches over him for all star games or picked for all nba teams who fans today would never rank over him.

Hes if anything the opposite of a "You must not have watched....".

Nobody put Reggie over Penny or Mitch Richmond in their primes. I ask now plenty of people will. It isnt because 22 year olds on the internet know more about 1994 than those of us who watched it........

The funny thing is that you could say that about a ton of other Hall of Famers at one point of their careers. Kobe being better than Shaq and Pippen being the real mvp of the bulls are some of the most outrageous ones Ive heard and read. Coaches, media etc. say a lot of things to support their agenda. One of the funny things Ive heard was Isiah thomas calling Reggie "the Pacers best defender" as a 35-36 year old

Reggie being placed over Richmond and Penny is probably due to Millers sustained success albeit not winning it all. It has nothing to do on how talented each of them were

[Kblaze8855]

Except those are unusual things to be said.

People not being blown away by Reggie Miller was....standard. The Pacers were not a team led by one guy clearly above the others.

Rik Smits was their go to guy like...half the 90s. People just dont seem to know it looking at PPG because they ignore he was playing 20 something minutes.

It was a lot of tough, smart, and well fitting players playing hard and being well coached.

It wasnt Reggie and the backup...and people didnt act like it was.

[Kblaze8855]

Real talk...the idea that Reggie Miller wasnt the best player on the Pacers was not something made up by haters in 2013....article from 1993 confirming something I knew I remembered.....

As the Pacers slowly fell to the hardwood in the third quarter yesterday and were stomped into it in the fourth, it was obvious that, while not without competitive skills, they could not match the home team's will. Even during the first half, when the Pacers had the wings of eagles, there were all kinds of clues, as when Starks out-toughed Detlef Schrempf for a loose ball on the sideline near midcourt, leaped and, from out of bounds, fired a strike to Charles Oakley for a breakaway layup.

Schrempf is supposed to be the Pacers' best player, but he scored just 10 points in Game 1 on Friday night and 2 points in the second half after a decent start yesterday. Anthony Mason is walking around these days in a T-shirt that says, "Mase in Yo Face." Schrempf contended just the opposite, that Mason was backing off and daring him to shoot the jump shot.

"I can't hit my outside shot, so I'm in trouble," he said.

While Schrempf was at it, he was painfully honest regarding the question of what creates the gulf between the Knicks and the Pacers.

"Every team in the league has talent," he said. "Basically, it comes down to mental approach and team play. They're tough mentally, and they play well as a team."

Implicit was that the Pacers are not and do not and so they were fated to lose no matter how bumbling the Knicks were in the first 24 minutes.

The beauty of this game, illustrated locally all those years ago by Red Holzman's Knicks, is when a group of players evolves into a purposeful unit, each one lending his special skill and making his own intangible contribution. On Pat Riley's team, a 42 percent shooter is given the freedom to fire away from the perimeter, almost at will. That's because Starks has earned the right. The bigger the moment, the better he shoots.

Reggie Miller, by reputation one of the premier marksmen in the game, was rated at least even in his pre-series matchup with Starks. He shoots almost 48 percent, but the numbers don't say that Miller works off continuous screens, that in the face of severe defensive heat he can't advance the ball.

Detlef I remember being called the best Pacer by a number of people back then. And Mckey. And Smits. Person before that. Reggie? Usually. The famous guy is gonna get the love but what was said here:

I feel like its a little dishonest to say Reggie led his team past blank... Reggie was never the clear cut best player on the pacers for more than maybe a year or two. He was the star, he wasn't the best player.

....is right in line with many general opinions from the time. But as the years go by the more players considered just as good or better fade in the face of Reggies famous name.

[Reggie43]

Except those are unusual things to be said.

People not being blown away by Reggie Miller was....standard. The Pacers were not a team led by one guy clearly above the others.

Rik Smits was their go to guy like...half the 90s. People just dont seem to know it looking at PPG because they ignore he was playing 20 something minutes.

It was a lot of tough, smart, and well fitting players playing hard and being well coached.

It wasnt Reggie and the backup...and people didnt act like it was.

Rik Smits was their go to guy half the 90s? I think its pretty obvious who they were going to most of the time if they needed a clutch basket to win a game.

[Kblaze8855]

Indeed it is. Doesnt mean he was generally the guy they were giving the ball looking to get the offense going. Smits was that teams go to scorer a hell of a lot of the time. Him not being as good a catch and shoot scorer as one of the best to ever do it doesnt change that.

There have been too many go to guys who were bigmen and therefore not the guy to give the ball for a quick shot to name. And I wont assume you dont know them. I'll just assume you chose to ignore them.

There were years Rik took more shots than Reggie in less minutes. But they had 3-4 good bigmen and he was 7'4'' quick to tire and fouled a lot.

But with both in the game....Rik was the one the offense was looking to get the ball to for a lot of the 90s.

[Reggie43]

Real talk...the idea that Reggie Miller wasnt the best player on the Pacers was not something made up by haters in 2013....article from 1993 confirming something I knew I remembered.....





Detlef I remember being called the best Pacer by a number of people back then. And Mckey. And Smits. Person before that. Reggie? Usually. The famous guy is gonna get the love but what was said here:




....is right in line with many general opinions from the time. But as the years go by the more players considered just as good or better fade in the face of Reggies famous name.

That was somewhat early in his career when hasnt fully developed the confidence in his game to be successful.

When they were successful in his prime nobody is definitely calling the team Rik Smits Pacers or Mckey's team dont you think?

All in all I respect your views and I understand where your opinion about Reggie is coming from so I wont hijack this thread any further

[Kblaze8855]

No they wouldnt call them Mckeys team. Or Smits. But again thats largely an issue of fame, marketing, and so on. Plus they were not guys to jump out and be vocal and make a scene. Just basketball players. And basketball people had just as much respect for guys like them as Reggie. They were a real team. Not a star plus role players. Far more 04-08 Pistons than I feel they are remembered as. Reggie is the only one history cares about. But he was one of many good players. Not one star with many helpers.

Far as reggies early career...I never got why people act like his prime started at 30. Reggie was Reggie in the late 80s. But ill agree to disagree.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YpBP2mJe2s


1989.

Pretty much the same guy as:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6IfMVByd3w

11 years later. Same basic player for a long time.