More impressive: Lebron, Dantley or Hakeem (2014,1983,1994)

[dankok8]

Good points, and excellent research.



Incidently, Lanier had his share of big games against Wilt, including one with 42 points. Still, in the course of 11 straight games, Chamberlain averaged 23.9 ppg on a staggering .784 FG%.

And speaking of Lanier, Thurmond easily outplayed him until late in his career. He had two 40+ point games against Lanier.

And I agree with a prime KAJ outplaying Wilt in Chamberlain's last season. Still, it was quite a testament Chamberlain's defense to hold a prime KAJ, who would shoot .554 in that season, to a .450 FG% (all while averaging 11 ppg on a .737 FG% himself.)

Once again, it was too bad that we never got to see a prime Chamberlain go H2H with a prime KAJ. I am convinced that he would have outplayed him. A mid-60's Wilt, with great athleticism and quickness, to go along with his massive strength, would have crushed KAJ on the glass, and no doubt would have been scoring on him. And given that an old Wilt held KAJ to a .464 FG% in their 28 career H2H's, I suspect that a motivated Wilt would have dramatically reduced KAJ's efficiency (just like he did to virtually every center he faced in his career.)

I think if Kareem and Wilt faced each other in their primes both guys would struggle to score efficiently. Kareem was a big guy too and a great man-to-man defender. Wilt would win the rebounding battles by a bit as he did in their H2H's. Who would win more games though... that's the question. I think 76-77 Kareem (who was 260+ lbs) could withstand Chamberlain's physical attack.

[Miller for 3]

Two of those guys were lockdown defenders who made their teams better. The other is Lebron. Add that with the fact that they did it with no defensive 3 seconds, handchecking, traveling being enforced, PED testing, no flopping Euro players or stretch fours, etc., and this is blowout. Lebron should be compared to Michael Cooper or other role players, not allstar level players

[AboutBuckets]

The heat been been playing only OK defense this season. They don't care about rebounding and barely care about defense most nights. They've decided to be all about efficient offense. At least for now. They can still turn the D up, but they have been pretty lazy with it mostly.

This. Re-watch the last 6 minutes of the Pacers game a few days ago to see the bolded in full effect

Edit: to avoid derailing, I'm going to go with Hakeem in terms of the most impactful statline in his team's success that season, but in the OP Dantley is doing Lebron better than Lebron.

[Psileas]

Wilt wasn't as dominant rebounding in his last season as his overall stats might suggest. Thurmond outrebounded him in all 7 H2H's, Kareem outrebounded him in 5 out of 6, and Cowens outrebounded him in 3 out 4.

Guys were also dropping some huge offensive numbers on 72-73 Wilt. His defensive impact was nowhere near the seasons before despite the nice looking numbers.

As for OP's question it's almost a dead tie between Hakeem and LBJ.

I've accumulated these stats as well, but I won't be sold on Wilt's opponents' offensive output unless I see their shooting percentages. Yes, quite a few centers actually had high scoring games vs old (esp. 1973) Wilt and, not surprisingly, they were centers with a fine mid-range game (Lanier, Hayes, Cowens, Kareem). But even for them, and even though Wilt didn't like leaving the paint, shooting too many mid-range shots would seem quite a good strategy for Wilt and his team. It's like Russell and the Celtics who were trying to force Wilt to take as many fade-away shots as he could, because, even though he could usually make them at a decent clip, they were still clearly less efficient shots than his dunks, short range finger-rolls, etc. None of these guys would stand a chance to score at high clips near the basket, with Wilt protecting the basket, so I guess most of these shots were mid-range shots at not-so-high %'s. See Thurmond averaging 15-20 ppg at less than 40% FG or Kareem averaging 30 ppg on 45%, I see the same pattern for the rest as well.

[avonbarksdale]

Lawsuit after jumping to the ABA to be player coach which forced him to sit out a season - when he sat out he decided to move on in life and not to return to the game. He continued to receive offers to play from there on out until he was 54 years old. At 36 his final NBA season he set the still standing record in accuracy, played in Finals, finished 4th in MVP voting, lead the league in rebounding, probably lead the league in blocked shots, was 1st team all defense and would have been the front runner for DPOY. He definitely retired way earlier than he needed to with a lot more left in the tank. He didn't retire because he wasn't any good anymore, he just decided to stop playing.

wow ur sucha good poster

[CavaliersFTW]

I think if Kareem and Wilt faced each other in their primes both guys would struggle to score efficiently. Kareem was a big guy too and a great man-to-man defender. Wilt would win the rebounding battles by a bit as he did in their H2H's. Who would win more games though... that's the question. I think 76-77 Kareem (who was 260+ lbs) could withstand Chamberlain's physical attack.

False, Kareem was only 260+ lbs his final 2 NBA seasons, his ENTIRE prime was at a weight of 237-240lbs, and even the majority of his twilight years was played at 240lbs. There are interviews of Kareem in like 1984 discussing his 240lb frame, and he is still quite visibly skinny.

Wilt on the other hand, was 275-290lbs in his prime.

[Psileas]

False, Kareem was only 260+ lbs his final 2 NBA seasons, his ENTIRE prime was at a weight of 237-240lbs, and even the majority of his twilight years was played at 240lbs. There are interviews of Kareem in like 1984 discussing his 240lb frame, and he is still quite visibly skinny.

Wilt on the other hand, was 275-290lbs in his prime.

I suspect those extra pounds (combined with advanced age, obviously) had their toll on Kareem's jumping ability and, therefore, his shooting percentages drastically falling that late period. Even in 1987, he still had no problem shooting at 56.4%, then he falls to 53.2% and the next year to 47.5%, by far a career-low.

[Bryant]

Kobe Bryant.

[inclinerator]

wilt was so good, he retired to give the nba a chance

[dankok8]

I've accumulated these stats as well, but I won't be sold on Wilt's opponents' offensive output unless I see their shooting percentages. Yes, quite a few centers actually had high scoring games vs old (esp. 1973) Wilt and, not surprisingly, they were centers with a fine mid-range game (Lanier, Hayes, Cowens, Kareem). But even for them, and even though Wilt didn't like leaving the paint, shooting too many mid-range shots would seem quite a good strategy for Wilt and his team. It's like Russell and the Celtics who were trying to force Wilt to take as many fade-away shots as he could, because, even though he could usually make them at a decent clip, they were still clearly less efficient shots than his dunks, short range finger-rolls, etc. None of these guys would stand a chance to score at high clips near the basket, with Wilt protecting the basket, so I guess most of these shots were mid-range shots at not-so-high %'s. See Thurmond averaging 15-20 ppg at less than 40% FG or Kareem averaging 30 ppg on 45%, I see the same pattern for the rest as well.

Good point but for Cowens who averaged 20.5 ppg and 16.2 rpg on 45.2% shooting, putting up 31.3 ppg and 19.8 rpg (his numbers on Wilt in 72-73) on whatever % is pretty incredible. I presume he didn't shoot too bad either since Wilt would rarely venture out of the paint to defend guys with range. And after all Boston swept the season series with LA 4-0.

False, Kareem was only 260+ lbs his final 2 NBA seasons, his ENTIRE prime was at a weight of 237-240lbs, and even the majority of his twilight years was played at 240lbs. There are interviews of Kareem in like 1984 discussing his 240lb frame, and he is still quite visibly skinny.

Wilt on the other hand, was 275-290lbs in his prime.

Kareem circa 1977 looks about 20 lbs heavier than 1972 Kareem who I know was 235 lbs. I don't dispute your claim but do you have a source?

[CavaliersFTW]

Good point but for Cowens who averaged 20.5 ppg and 16.2 rpg on 45.2% shooting, putting up 31.3 ppg and 19.8 rpg (his numbers on Wilt in 72-73) on whatever % is pretty incredible. I presume he didn't shoot too bad either since Wilt would rarely venture out of the paint to defend guys with range. And after all Boston swept the season series with LA 4-0.



Kareem circa 1977 looks about 20 lbs heavier than 1972 Kareem who I know was 235 lbs. I don't dispute your claim but do you have a source?

1972 237lbs
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ds+weigh&hl=en

1976 240lbs
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=7210,4932330

I think even in the mid 80's he still looked very visibly thin - I don't see him looking 20lbs different from 1972 til say 1985 I think he looks the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGa_VDKqSE

[Pointguard]

1972 237lbs
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...ds+weigh&hl=en

1976 240lbs
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=7210,4932330

I think even in the mid 80's he still looked very visibly thin - I don't see him looking 20lbs different from 1972 til say 1985 I think he looks the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNGa_VDKqSE

His shot demands a lot of balance. Gaining weight would have definitely affected a shot that had a lot of flow, balance and grace. The mechanics are a thing of beauty but are very delicate. Its the reason why few other (nobody) people can do the shot. If he's bottom heavy, his leg would have a pulling gravity. If he's top heavy, the leg would follow the top parts pull - the shot would lose its grace and flow and then mechanically demand changes.

[LAZERUSS]

Good point but for Cowens who averaged 20.5 ppg and 16.2 rpg on 45.2% shooting, putting up 31.3 ppg and 19.8 rpg (his numbers on Wilt in 72-73) on whatever % is pretty incredible. I presume he didn't shoot too bad either since Wilt would rarely venture out of the paint to defend guys with range. And after all Boston swept the season series with LA 4-0.



Kareem circa 1977 looks about 20 lbs heavier than 1972 Kareem who I know was 235 lbs. I don't dispute your claim but do you have a source?

I am going to be brutally honest here. I think most fans vastly under-rate a mid-60's Chamberlain. CavsFan has posted footage of a prime Chamberlain, and while he very seldom extends his range as he did earlier in his career (and it was definitely 15+ ft, and with a myriad of moves), his quickness, leaping ability, and excellent 5-10 ft range was just unstoppable.

And, if a 35-36 year old Chamberlain, at over 300 lbs, and on a surgically repaired knee could routinely block his sky-hook, and dramatically reduce his efficiency...then I am convinced that a prime Wilt would have been just too much for any version of Kareem to handle.

I am not saying that KAJ wouldn't score against Wilt. But I suspect that a prime Chamberlain would have battered him physically, and used his leaping ability and length to either consistently alter, and block the sky-hook (which an old Chamberlain actually did.) And I just don't see any version of KAJ being able to stop a prime Chamberlain at the other end. No one else did it, although Nate was the closest. But even a prime Chamberlain was capable of 45 point games against Thurmond.

And in terms of rebounding...it would have been one-sided. A young peak Kareem was a very good rebounder, but never an elite one. And here again, an old Chamberlain, in their 28 career H2H's outrebounded Kareem by a solid margin. A mid-60's Chamberlain was trashing Russell, Thurmond, and everyone else. hell, even an old Wilt was substantially outrebounding Thurmond, at least in their biggest games.

Overall, a prime Wilt would have had an edge in virtually every area, except FT shooting. But, as was the case his entire career, Chamberlain still MADE FTs. He currently ranks 16th all-time, and while KAJ made more FTs in his career, Chamberlain averaged 432 made per season, compared to KAJ's 335.

[spree43]

Lebron leads the league in turnovers per 100 possessions

That takes a little away from his efficiency, but I'd still take him over Dantleys season, but Olajuwon was so good that year its hard to say.

[Pointguard]

The thing in general about Dantley that is impressive is that he was 6'5 without much speed, jumping ability, quickness or super strength. AND he scored in the post on anybody. McHale was one of the longest powerforwards and he would get it too. Amazing when you think about it.

Dantley has to be the king of TS% as he had six years where he shot over 620%. One complete year when he shot 652 TS%. And in the playoffs all six years when he shot more than once a game his TS% was above 600%. That was his basement.

But once you throw in other stats the impressive fades.