Jordan/LeBron one on one

[Dragonyeuw]

All this talk of Lebron's size/strength advantage, one would think MJ was a slouch in strength or something.

Anyways, we can break down all the physical/ skill attributes ad nauseum, the mental aspect is what I think determines a series of games. As stated by the OP on a few occasions, MJ is going to be relentless with his trashtalking, Lebron has never been the kind of guy that will accept that kind of challenge head on, MJ on the other hand takes any challenge as an excuse to push harder.

I think they'd split games in the beginning, with MJ's mental edge winning out in the end. He's not going to get flustered or lose confidence, and he has far more offensive skill at his disposal. MJ has the lateral quickness to keep Lebron in front and the defensive skills to keep Lebron from trying to do too much with the dribble. Take away his driving game, contain his post game as much as possible, and make him beat you from outside, where he has shown a knack for seizing up and hesitating once he realizes he needs to beat you with the jumper. Lebron's jumpshot is a compliment to his game, and its usually on when the rest of his game is on. MJ offensively has several weapons to go to if you happen to close out one of them.

A much better apples to apples one on one game is MJ/Kobe, similar size, similar iso skills, similar competitive killer instinct to go HAM if you challenge them. I recall a game back in (2008 maybe?) when Kobe was playing against Ron Artest in Houston, they got into a trashtalking affair and then Kobe proceeded to just score on him at will afterwards.

If Kobe beats MJ in a one on one game, its because he outskilled him that particular game. Lebron beating MJ in one on one wouldnt be a question of outskilling him, because he doesn't and cant, not in iso situations. It would be because he outsized and outbeefed MJ with brute force.

[swagga]

All this talk of Lebron's size/strength advantage, one would think MJ was a slouch in strength or something.

Anyways, we can break down all the physical/ skill attributes ad nauseum, the mental aspect is what I think determines a series of games. As stated by the OP on a few occasions, MJ is going to be relentless with his trashtalking, Lebron has never been the kind of guy that will accept that kind of challenge head on, MJ on the other hand takes any challenge as an excuse to push harder.

I think they'd split games in the beginning, with MJ's mental edge winning out in the end. He's not going to get flustered or lose confidence, and he has far more offensive skill at his disposal. MJ has the lateral quickness to keep Lebron in front and the defensive skills to keep Lebron from trying to do too much with the dribble. Take away his driving game, contain his post game as much as possible, and make him beat you from outside, where he has shown a knack for seizing up and hesitating once he realizes he needs to beat you with the jumper. Lebron's jumpshot is a compliment to his game, and its usually on when the rest of his game is on. MJ offensively has several weapons to go to if you happen to close out one of them.

A much better apples to apples one on one game is MJ/Kobe, similar size, similar iso skills, similar competitive killer instinct to go HAM if you challenge them. I recall a game back in (2008 maybe?) when Kobe was playing against Ron Artest in Houston, they got into a trashtalking affair and then Kobe proceeded to just score on him at will afterwards.

If Kobe beats MJ in a one on one game, its because he outskilled him that particular game. Lebron beating MJ in one on one wouldnt be a question of outskilling him, because he doesn't and cant, not in iso situations. It would be because he outsized and outbeefed MJ with brute force.

nobody sayin MJ isn't more skill but basketball ain't only a skill game. 1v1 to 21 lebron takes about 80-85 out of a hundred games because of bullying, as anybody who plays one-on-one seriously would undoubtly know. It's no stain on MJ, Lebron just has too much physical advantage.

Young shaq would be a monster at 1v1, so would young kareem, they would simply regulate anybody including lebron btw. Hell, add in there KG or any other big that can handle the rock.

I'd easily put money down that josh smith gets the best of kobe(any variant) if they play 10 games to 21.

[swagga]

and LMAO at killer instinct.

1v1 is a different game and even the softest of softies will quickly understand that if:
- he has 50 pounds and 3 inches on you
- and you have comparable skill levels (i.e nba players, not even superstar-to-superstar comparisons)

He will just bully the fcuk out you.


Killer instinct is good for soloing in a team concept, 1v1 not so much.

Just proves to you nigs on this board ain't playin much.

[Dragonyeuw]

nobody sayin MJ isn't more skill but basketball ain't only a skill game.

I never argued otherwise, nor have I argued that Lebron is incapable of beating MJ. I am saying that MJ vs Kobe is a straight skill vs skill contest, whereas Lebron beating MJ would not be because he outskilled him,but outsized him. At no point did I say that basketball is only a skill game, but I'd have greater respect for someone who actually outskilled Jordan to a win, as opposed to outsized. Skill is earned, size isn't.

[Dragonyeuw]

and LMAO at killer instinct.

1v1 is a different game and even the softest of softies will quickly understand that if:
- he has 50 pounds and 3 inches on you
- and you have comparable skill levels (i.e nba players, not even superstar-to-superstar comparisons)

He will just bully the fcuk out you.


Killer instinct is good for soloing in a team concept, 1v1 not so much.

Just proves to you nigs on this board ain't playin much.

Iso skills are also incredibly important in one on one, and in terms of size difference you talk like we're debating Shaq vs Jordan or something. Lebron's edge in size isn't as insurmountable as you say.

Furthermore, while MJ has to defend Lebron, the reverse is also true. Having superior iso skills means Jordan can attack from a variety of angles and be more unpredictable. Over a series of games, MJ has the defensive IQ to figure out Lebron's tendencies, and the speed to keep him in front. Yeah, Lebron can simply back his way down, lets not act like Lebron is Hakeem down low. They'd split games, in a series of 10 I'd give MJ 6. Lebron winning 85% of the games as you suggest above.....LMAO.

[swagga]

I never argued otherwise, nor have I argued that Lebron is incapable of beating MJ. I am saying that MJ vs Kobe is a straight skill vs skill contest, whereas Lebron beating MJ would not be because he outskilled him,but outsized him. At no point did I say that basketball is only a skill game, but I'd have greater respect for someone who actually outskilled Jordan to a win, as opposed to outsized. Skill is earned, size isn't.

I agree with you, never intended to say otherwise, just that you can argue that as you get bigger it is much more difficult to be have good ballhandling/shooting/footwork so even if you win the genetic lottery you still have to train like nuts. Can you say you respect more kobe's fadeaway/MJ slashing then lebrons ability to handle the ball in trafic at his freakish size?

I'm basically arguing that even if size is given the ability to use it isn't, it takes training too, coordination is harder when you're bigger. Ofc I love kobe/MJ footwork/ball/slash skills, but in 1v1 it's not about fairness, just about winning.



Nonetheless my the best 1v1 player in the league right should be blake griffin, excellent monility/speed/size/strength/stamina + best ballhandling big in a while. Jumper is irrelevant in 1v1.

[swagga]

Btw, disregarding team D(big assumption right here) it's no wonder that guys like diaw, blake griffin give lebron more trouble than paul george, KD (underrated man2man d) or kobe because they are bulkier but mobile. Strength is underrated in basketball.

The more uninformed posters were laughing at this but wtf they know about ball?

[jzek]

Why post so many words on a casual message board? Leave that sh*t on your school papers.

[imdaman99]

[STATUTORY]

suddenly a new contender arise for the biggest stan on ish competition

unclear what OP's agenda is just yet

[Dragonyeuw]

I agree with you, never intended to say otherwise, just that you can argue that as you get bigger it is much more difficult to be have good ballhandling/shooting/footwork so even if you win the genetic lottery you still have to train like nuts. Can you say you respect more kobe's fadeaway/MJ slashing then lebrons ability to handle the ball in trafic at his freakish size?
.

I respect skill, which is not to say I don't respect what Lebron does at his size. However there have been players similar in size like magic, penny, grant hill who can handle the rock with the finesse of players smaller than them. Only MJ and Kobe have displayed the complete arsenal of scoring skills at their position and size. But, we're talking two different things here. I agree that size plays a role in 1 on 1, I'm not sure how much of an impact it has in this matchup, Jordan is smaller but no slouch himself in strength and Lebron is still not what I would call a 'skilled' post player where he could abuse that to his advantage time and time again.

[swagga]

I respect skill, which is not to say I don't respect what Lebron does at his size. However there have been players similar in size like magic, penny, grant hill who can handle the rock with the finesse of players smaller than them. Only MJ and Kobe have displayed the complete arsenal of scoring skills at their position and size. But, we're talking too different things here. I agree that size plays a role in 1 on 1, I'm not sure how much of an impact it has in this matchup, Jordan is smaller but no slouch himself in strength.

everybody should love kobe's 81 or 63, if not he ain't a fan of hoops.

@strength : look at the the 1991 finals and how MJ was guarding magic. He wasn't. Because he couldn't, Phil tried it but he got burned time after time. You don't stop a much stronger good ballhandler fron posting you up. That's why they put scottie on magic.

even this sell-out saw it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARHtF4Letw

[swagga]

oh and btw I picked the 1991 finals for one more reason: a PRIME physical MJ vs an older slower magic. Can you imagine how it'd go if magic were in his physical prime, it'd get ugly MJ for sure.

and that's even disregarding defense where the scales would be more even if we pick a young magic. as i've said, it's very hard to beat a bigger decent player.

[Dragonyeuw]

everybody should love kobe's 81 or 63, if not he ain't a fan of hoops.

@strength : look at the the 1991 finals and how MJ was guarding magic. He wasn't. Because he couldn't, Phil tried it but he got burned time after time. You don't stop a much stronger good ballhandler fron posting you up. That's why they put scottie on magic.

even this sell-out saw it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARHtF4Letw

Magic was a much better post player than Lebron, better footwork, capable of babyhooks from either hand which, again, is a skill issue and not a size one. In that video MJ also has to deal with the fact that magic down low is a double threat to either score or pass as its a team 5 on 5 scenario. We're talking about one on one, there's no one for Lebron to pass to on the occasion where MJ may be able to maneuver him into a tough shot in the post. Kobe down low would give MJ more trouble simply because Kobe has a number of weapons he can go to, the fadeaway, up and unders, hooks, and impeccable footwork.

At the end of the day, if the argument is that Lebron will simply bully MJ down low, that can be said of just about any center or power forward who has ever played. Get the ball down low, and they'd score on MJ at will. If thats the barometer for who's a better one on one player, then there are thousands of players better at one on one than MJ. My question is.... is who wins in a game of one on one and who is a better one on on player......the same question?

[navy]

everybody should love kobe's 81 or 63, if not he ain't a fan of hoops.

@strength : look at the the 1991 finals and how MJ was guarding magic. He wasn't. Because he couldn't, Phil tried it but he got burned time after time. You don't stop a much stronger good ballhandler fron posting you up. That's why they put scottie on magic.

even this sell-out saw it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARHtF4Letw

This. Honestly you you dont know need alot of skill in a one on one situation post up. The entire court is open to you and there is no help defense or five second call.

The teams that successfully guard lebron packed the paint so he wont drive right past them. Bulls, Pacers, Spurs. People say Boris Diaw stopped Lebron, and I wont deny he did a good job in some games, but that was only because the spurs packed the paint to stop lebron's driving lanes. Just go watch the fourth quarter game 6 of the nba finals. Lebron was driving past everyone when he had room. Just nothing you can do.


Jordan would not be able to stop Lebron one on one. But at the same time, there is no way Lebron would not be able to stop Jordan. I would give it Jordan 6/10 times because his midrange game is slightly better. But it wouldnt be a domination of any sort.