Man who tricked his gf into taking abortion pill receives 14 years

[chosen_one6]

Wrong. The woman has absolute control over the fate of the child, ergo it is her responsibility, and her responsibility alone. Moreover, the woman can lie (or forget) about her taking birth control, and trick her way into insemination.

If it is a 'woman's body' as we so often hear, then it is also a woman's responsibility to take the precautions necessary to prevent pregnancy. It is not hard.

It's also not hard for the male to take precautions to prevent the pregnancy as well.

It seems like you're trying to play devil's advocate with what you're saying. You don't honestly believe the responsibility of having a child is solely on the woman do you?

I bet you also believe that women should be solely responsible for raising the child too, since it only came out of her body right?

[MavsSuperFan]

You have to understand that a law like that will never be made and if it was, there would be so much public outcry that it would not be passed. You can't back out of pregnancy a week after you find out.

This is an argument that's just going to go in circles. In short, both parties should be held liable once fornication has been done. I don't see why that's such a problem.

This is an argument that's just going to go in circles. In short, both parties should be held liable once fornication has been done. I don't see why that's such a problem

So do you oppose adoption?
Do you oppose safe haven laws? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

Safe-haven laws (also known in some states as "Baby Moses laws", in reference to the religious scripture) are statutes in the United States that decriminalize the leaving of unharmed infants with statutorily designated private persons so that the child becomes a ward of the state. "Safe-haven" laws typically let parents remain nameless to the court, often using a numbered bracelet system as the only means of linking the baby to the parent. Some states treat safe-haven surrenders as child dependency or abandonment, with a complaint being filed for such in juvenile court. The parent either defaults or answers the complaint. Others treat safe-haven surrenders as adoption surrenders, hence a waiver of parental rights (see parental responsibility). Police stations, hospitals, rescue squads, and fire houses are all typical locations to which the safe-haven law applies.

Do you oppose abortions that are not medically necessary?

[nightprowler10]

I feel like there are a lot of salty dudes on ISH paying a fvkload in child supoort cause they got some skeezer pregnant

Most definitely. This is appalling.

People really don't get that it's about the woman's body? If she chooses to abort for whatever reason or decides to keep it for whatever reason, it's her right, regardless of what the father wants. It's really black and white in that sense.

However, if that does happen and she does decide to abort, then the would-be father has every right to leave the bitch (this actually happened to my friend) if he doesn't feel she gives a **** about him or their relationship if she went ahead and aborted without his consent. On the flip side, if she decides to keep it and he doesn't want it, then I still don't feel it's unfair to have the father support the kid as it's a life that needs support. I don't think that's hypocritical, if you think it is then you don't understand well enough the emotional and physical trauma a woman goes through in either case.

[MavsSuperFan]

It's also not hard for the male to take precautions to prevent the pregnancy as well.

It seems like you're trying to play devil's advocate with what you're saying. You don't honestly believe the responsibility of having a child is solely on the woman do you?

I bet you also believe that women should be solely responsible for raising the child too, since it only came out of her body right?

No, If a couple agree to have a child and later they break up. The male should be forced to pay child support. And he is an immoral bum imo if he doesnt want to.

If on the other hand the male makes it clear that he isnt ready to be a parent, and the woman chooses unilaterally to raise the child on her own. She should make that decision knowing that she has to provide for the child by herself.

The fact that the child comes out of the woman's body is irrelevant to me, with the exception that she should have total and unilateral decision making on whether an abortion occurs or not.

My problem with the current laws is illustrated with the Arian Foster situation.

-Foster impregnated a 20 year old woman.
-Foster made it clear to her he didnt want to raise a child with her. (this is the key point to me)
-Woman is now going to bring the child to term and raise it.

The problem:
-woman is demanding money from foster. The supposed reason for these payments is to raise the child, however the courts will usually allow the mother 100% leeway on how to spend the money. Eg. she can buy heels with that money if she wants.

[MavsSuperFan]

Most definitely. This is appalling.

People really don't get that it's about the woman's body? If she chooses to abort for whatever reason or decides to keep it for whatever reason, it's her right, regardless of what the father wants. It's really black and white in that sense.

However, if that does happen and she does decide to abort, then the would-be father has every right to leave the bitch (this actually happened to my friend) if he doesn't feel she gives a **** about him or their relationship if she went ahead and aborted without his consent. On the flip side, if she decides to keep it and he doesn't want it, then I still don't feel it's unfair to have the father support the kid as it's a life that needs support. I don't think that's hypocritical, if you think it is then you don't understand well enough the emotional and physical trauma a woman goes through in either case.

People really don't get that it's about the woman's body? If she chooses to abort for whatever reason or decides to keep it for whatever reason, it's her right, regardless of what the father wants. It's really black and white in that sense.

Absolutely, Who is arguing against this? If a woman wants to abort, she should abort. I am even slightly conflicted about late term abortion.

if that does happen and she does decide to abort, then the would-be father has every right to leave the bitch (this actually happened to my friend) if he doesn't feel she gives a **** about him or their relationship if she went ahead and aborted without his consent.

Completely agree, **** the males opinion on abortion. Whether a woman wants to abort or not is 100% her providence. If the male is upset, break up with her.

On the flip side, if she decides to keep it and he doesn't want it, then I still don't feel it's unfair to have the father support the kid as it's a life that needs support. I don't think that's hypocritical, if you think it is then you don't understand well enough the emotional and physical trauma a woman goes through in either case.

Wrong, No one should be able to unilaterally make a decision to take another person's money against their will. If a person makes a decision to take on a responsibility they should have zero right to force an ex to help them pay for it.

Eg. If tomorrow I decided to adopt a kid, I shouldn't be able to call my ex girlfriend and ask her to pay me child support.

2nd eg. If my girlfriend decides to abandon our child under safe haven laws, and I decide to adopt the child, I should not be able to force her to pay me money.

3rd eg. adoptive parents should not be able to force biological parents to pay child support.

Having the freedom to make a decision ( the freedom to choose to keep a child) does not entitle you to the resource to cover your decision. You have to provide the resources yourself and be responsible for your decision.

Eg. Everyone should have the right to buy a condo on the upper west side of manhattan. No one should be give the right to extort money out of others to buy a condo on the upper west side.

[MavsSuperFan]

I feel like there are a lot of salty dudes on ISH paying a fvkload in child supoort cause they got some skeezer pregnant

Or people see clear inequalities of our current laws.

Some people have the ability to feel empathy and can articulate and advocate for something that doesnt benefit them in anyway.

Eg. a white person against jim crow back in the pre 1960s US
an atheist who is against muslim bashing
A white us citizen that supports the dream act.
A male who believes women should be paid the same as a man for the same job.

[nightprowler10]

Wrong, No one should be able to unilaterally make a decision to take another person's money against their will. If a person makes a decision to take on a responsibility they should have zero right to force an ex to help them pay for it.

Eg. If tomorrow I decided to adopt a kid, I shouldn't be able to call my ex girlfriend and ask her to pay me child support.

2nd eg. If my girlfriend decides to abandon our child under safe haven laws, and I decide to adopt the child, I should not be able to force her to pay me money.

3rd eg. adoptive parents should not be able to force biological parents to pay child support.

Having the freedom to make a decision ( the freedom to choose to keep a child) does not entitle you to the resource to cover your decision. You have to provide the resources yourself and be responsible for your decision.

Eg. Everyone should have the right to buy a condo on the upper west side of manhattan. No one should be give the right to extort money out of others to buy a condo on the upper west side.

You're comparing property with life. If my ex goes out and buys a property I am not obligated to pay anything because my DNA is not involved... I have no personal responsibility towards that property. A child is different. If my ex decides to keep a child, even if it is to **** me over, I still have personal responsibility to that child because I decided to get my dick wet and didn't care that I was ****ing a total bitch. Maybe I am just biased because I was smart enough to **** sensible women that I properly knew and had formed a relationship with before ****ing them, but if women are suffering physical and emotional consequences for spreading their legs then it's completely fair for men to be expected to suffer some financial consequences for their bad decisions. Anyway, to address your examples:

1 - no personal responsibility because her actions did not cause you to adopt a child

2 - it's a tricky one because she already suffered through physical/emotional trauma, but again she has personal responsibility to the child with her DNA in it

3 - on the fence here, what if the child has physical issues because the biological mother was an alcoholic during pregnancy and the adoptive parents had to pay for medical bills later in life? Again, personal responsibility for your bad choices

Also, one thing to keep in mind in many of these scenarios, if we don't have these laws in place that ensure there are enough finances to support the children by way of personal responsibility, in many cases the people who don't do these things to take advantage of someone will suffer and in all likelihood more of these unwanted children will end up in orphanages or in foster care with people who want to scam the system. The most important thing to us as a society in every scenario should be the quality of life of the child who had nothing to do with anybody's bad decisions.

[Bandito]

That guy is going to get so raped in prison....

[Dresta]

Most definitely. This is appalling.

People really don't get that it's about the woman's body? If she chooses to abort for whatever reason or decides to keep it for whatever reason, it's her right, regardless of what the father wants. It's really black and white in that sense.

However, if that does happen and she does decide to abort, then the would-be father has every right to leave the bitch (this actually happened to my friend) if he doesn't feel she gives a **** about him or their relationship if she went ahead and aborted without his consent. On the flip side, if she decides to keep it and he doesn't want it, then I still don't feel it's unfair to have the father support the kid as it's a life that needs support. I don't think that's hypocritical, if you think it is then you don't understand well enough the emotional and physical trauma a woman goes through in either case.

This is a double standard, and if you can't see it, then you are blind. Whether you think it is fair or not is irrelevant.

The 'woman's body' argument is invalid anyway because there is another body inside her which is the combination of the father and the mother. Hosting a child in your body does not grant you sole ownership rights, nor the power of life over death by any consistent ethical standard.

[iamgine]

once he is told by the woman that she is pregnant. He should have to tell her that he doesnt want to participate in raising the child.

Well then the woman could just deny ever hearing this statement. Or she just doesn't tell until it's too late to abort.

[gts]

once he is told by the woman that she is pregnant. He should have to tell her that he doesnt want to participate in raising the child.

You signed way those rights when you decided to have sex. Just like the mother, once you decided a little pleasure is worth the risks of fatherhood/motherhood you're in it for the next 18 years whether you like it or not...

It's so simple I'm surprised so many seemingly smart people have problems with it...

If the woman is not a woman you'd want to be the mother of your child, don't screw her.

If you're not ready to be a father, don't screw anyone

accidents happen, condoms and whatever are not fool proof, every time you have sex you're saying I'm ready to be a daddy.. You don't get to bail out after the fact, the time for making responsible decisions about your life has already passed

[BrownEye007]

You signed way those rights when you decided to have sex. Just like the mother, once you decided a little pleasure is worth the risks of fatherhood/motherhood you're in it for the next 18 years whether you like it or not...

It's so simple I'm surprised so many seemingly smart people have problems with it...

If the woman is not a woman you'd want to be the mother of your child, don't screw her.

If you're not ready to be a father, don't screw anyone

accidents happen, condoms and whatever are not fool proof, every time you have sex you're saying I'm ready to be a daddy.. You don't get to bail out after the fact, the time for making responsible decisions about your life has already passed

Actually they have these things called abortions have you ever heard of them?

[russwest0]

Feminism

[Stempel, HERB]

garbage

[cuad]

Good deal. 14 < 18.