Intelligence: Nature or Nurture

[step_back]

Isn't a high level of intelligence also related to madness?

I'm talking Einstein level intelligence here.

[-p.tiddy-]

Isn't a high level of intelligence also related to madness?

I'm talking Einstein level intelligence here.

like autistic savant types?...rain man

check this out:

[URL="http://www.thefastertimes.com/tech/2011/03/30/boy-genius-12-challenges-einsteins-theory-of-relativity/"]Boy genius, 12, Challenges Einstein

[Dresta]

no depression is not usually "mental illness" like schizophrenia

so somehow we all get this "illness" once we lose our jobs/money?



this point of view seems contradictory to someone who refuses to buy into alcoholism being heriditary

No, you are confusing clinical depression with simply being unhappy. Depression is a different monster altogether, and can completely destroy a human being in a short period of time if it is not dealt with.

I said genetic traits that increase the likelihood of alcoholism may be hereditary, but that alcoholism itself is not hereditary. There is a difference. For example, if someone becomes an alcoholic because he is highly compulsive, then is it not the compulsive trait that was inherited rather than the alcoholism?

Likewise there are genetic traits that make someone more likely to succumb to depression, just as there are with schizophrenia and bipolar, all of which are classified as 'mental disorders' or illnesses.

[IamRAMBO24]

It's a combination of both nature and nurture obviously.

Are we done?

It is neither. This is a stupid blanket comparison. Nature and nurture deals with epiphenomenalism. It is materialism vs materialism. The correct answer is both because they are pretty much the same thing.

The real question you should ask is mind vs environment. It is your mindset that will create your reality. There are rich kids who are f*cked up and there are poor kids who will be a failure in life; basketball stars aren't great because they are taller and bigger than everybody else: there are plenty of people in society with the same height and strength. The difference is their mindset. They wanted it more than the regular joe. Just because you are born smart it doesn't mean you will be the next Einstein. There are a lot of smart kids who won't amount to anything in their life.

What makes you great in life will be what goes on in your mind. I'm not talking about education; I'm talking about creativity. You can come from a poor household and still something great, and if you have horrible genes, you can still reach higher than most people. Look at Helen Keller, can't see, can't hear, and dumb as f*ck, but she still accomplished more than most people in history.

[Akrazotile]

[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]like autistic savant types?...rain man

check this out:

[URL="http://www.thefastertimes.com/tech/2011/03/30/boy-genius-12-challenges-einsteins-theory-of-relativity/"]Boy genius, 12, Challenges Einstein

[Akrazotile]

basketball stars aren't great because they are taller and bigger than everybody else: there are plenty of people in society with the same height and strength. The difference is their mindset. They wanted it more than the regular joe.

The basketball comparison is dumb, there is a reason the avg NBA player is a 6'5 black guy, however you are on to an accurate general point that "drive" is an altogether separate factor from intelligence and varies by person.

Some people have an intrisic desire for security that is higher or lower than average, whether it be physical, social, emotional etc. Some people feel compelled to prove things to their peers more often than others do. Others are more complacent bc they dont naturally give as much of AF.

Some people are born workers, thats just what theyre wired to do. And no matter how much money they make they always keep grinding. Other people are born wanderers, and no matter what situation theyre in their tendency is to look around more, and feel less pressure to put their nose to the grindstone. Thats just how theyre wired. Most people are in the middle, naturally. And IMO it has nothing to do with intelligence. Often it has to do with innate feelings of security or a need thereof.

[IamRAMBO24]

The basketball comparison is dumb, there is a reason the avg NBA player is a 6'5 black guy, however you are on to an accurate general point that "drive" is an altogether separate factor from intelligence and varies by person.

Some people have an intrisic desire for security that is higher or lower than average, whether it be physical, social, emotional etc. Some people feel compelled to prove things to their peers more often than others do. Others are more complacent bc they dont naturally give as much of AF.

Some people are born workers, thats just what theyre wired to do. And no matter how much money they make they always keep grinding. Other people are born wanderers, and no matter what situation theyre in their tendency is to look around more, and feel less pressure to put their nose to the grindstone. Thats just how theyre wired. Most people are in the middle, naturally. And IMO it has nothing to do with intelligence. Often it has to do with innate feelings of security or a need thereof.

The basketball analogy was absolutely correct. What made Jordan great was his mindset. It wasn't his height nor was it his upbringing; sure those contributed in some way, but the single most important thing that set him apart from everbody else was his competitive drive. He wanted to be the best. He made up his mind that will be his goal. He utilized his creativity to figure out a way to be the best. Once that was set in stone, he put in the work to live up to the expectation he imposed on himself. That was all mind.

Even the most physical activity (exercise) is dependent on the mind. You can't lose weight or be healthy unless you have goals and a willingness to change your body. You can duke it out in the gym if you want, but good luck keeping it up for more than a week.

[ace23]

These types get a lot of attention but I suspect theres no real correlation. There are many child prodigies who do not have autism or related handicaps, and many autistics who do not have any prodigious skills or capacities. Because theyre not mutually exclusive, inevitably there will be random overlap. These cases are fascinating and tend to create more publicity but I havent seen much indicating any kind of link.

Pretty sure by "savant types", p tiddy is referring to people who suffer from Savant syndrome.

[IamRAMBO24]

Often it has to do with innate feelings of security or a need thereof.

Innate feelings of security is nothing more than the wrong focus on the body.

Your environment and body has nothing to do with your success. Soak that thought in for a while. The most powerful tool you have is your imagination and creativity.

Creativity dictates environment; your mind is what is creating your life. Look at your house, look at your family, look at your job, even the friends you have, the enemies you make, the girls you sleep with, etc. That is all your creation. If you have a sh*tty life, I don't blame you; your educational system is doing everything in its power to make sure you don't use this powerful tool.

Einstein's genius was not because he was born that way or he was good at math or science; he was a genius because he knew how to utilize his imagination.

[IamRAMBO24]

Many of you have a scientific mindset, so I understand it is hard for you to grasp how important your mindset is; you are train all your life to believe in materialsim without fully understanding science is nothing more than a tool. It should not be an ideology and neither should religion.

Both are antithetical to your powerful mind. Religion has been hijacked and the people who attend churches on sunday have been deceived to carry the same ideology. This is the reason why there will never be a solution as to which one is better. They are both the same thing. Materialism is materialism. You can't try to disprove one or the other because you are focused on the same bullsh*t.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

talkin outta my azz on these but hey it'll spark discussion...

[QUOTE]Musical

[-p.tiddy-]

Pretty sure by "savant types", p tiddy is referring to people who suffer from Savant syndrome.

yep

and savant syndrome I am fairly sure is related to autism...they are in the same spectrum (I think)