Intelligence: Nature or Nurture

[-p.tiddy-]

Nevertheless, [COLOR="Red"]a highly intelligent person is always more likely to view themselves as a failure[/COLOR], no matter their social position, because they create higher standards for themselves; while most intelligent people are plagued with self-doubt, morons tend to be afflicted with a self-certainty that defies belief. Therefore, considering 'success' is a largely subjective concept,[COLOR="Red"] it seems likely to me that far more morons are likely to regard themselves as being successful than intelligent people[/COLOR].

where do you get this stuff?

intelligence is linked to happiness...being a moron is linked to depression...not the other way around...that works for "success" as well...high income peeps tend to be happier on average than low income peeps...and more intelligent on average...FACT
______________

Their study of 6,870 people showed low intelligence was often linked with lower income and poor mental health, which contributed to unhappiness.

Lower IQs Linked To Less Happiness

More Money Always Leads To More Happiness: Study


stop trying to paint this picture where all the geniuses of the world are depressed and lack success just because that is how you view YOURSELF.

[-p.tiddy-]

REALITY:

smart people are more likely to be successful and happy

dumb people are more likely to be unsuccessful and depressed

[DonDadda59]

And thus begins 20+ pages of Tiddy vs Dresta II.

[-p.tiddy-]

And thus begins 20+ pages of Tiddy vs Dresta II.

*sigh*...I really don't have the energy for another one of those lol

I probably should have just left it alone...

[Dresta]

where do you get this stuff?

intelligence is linked to happiness...being a moron is linked to depression...not the other way around...that works for "success" as well...high income peeps tend to be happier on average than low income peeps...and more intelligent on average...FACT
______________

Their study of 6,870 people showed low intelligence was often linked with lower income and poor mental health, which contributed to unhappiness.

Lower IQs Linked To Less Happiness

More Money Always Leads To More Happiness: Study


stop trying to paint this picture where all the geniuses of the world are depressed and lack success just because that is how you view YOURSELF.

Thanks for time and again proving my point about the dangers of scientism, and how it limits critical thinking through its ability to convince morons of just about anything provided there is a bit of data to back it up. Stop taking intellectual short cuts, and try actually reading about the lives of people that the progression of time has shown to be 'geniuses' - take a look at what most of them thought about human kind in general combined with their tendency towards self-criticism, how they always felt they could have produced more and could have done it better, and were often riddled with self-doubt.

You really think posting a couple of frivolous studies does anything to combat this? Well, first, IQ is a terrible measure of intelligence, so that study can be instantly squashed. Secondly, 'depression' in this case has a completely subjective definition, with its measurement having been gleaned from the answers of individuals to personal and subjective questions (i.e. worthless). So you have 2 studies that are correlated by two false measurements and this somehow proves me wrong? Can you be serious? In fact, I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT DEPRESSION, SO WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IT? WHY ARE YOU POSTING COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT STUDIES?

I never said anything about money's relation to happiness either, so i don't know why you felt the need to post that 'study.'

And where do i get this stuff? Well, from my own personal experience with people and through extensive reading of individuals who are generally referred to as being geniuses, that's where. Though, having just looked it up, this tendency for imbeciles to overestimate their worth and for geniuses to underestimate theirs, is recognised in psychology as a natural cognitive bias, and is known as the 'Dunning-Kruger Effect': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

And here:

[QUOTE]across every test, the students at the bottom end of the bell curve held inflated opinions of their own talents, hugely inflated. In one test of logical reasoning, the lowest quartile of students estimated that their skills would put them above more than 60% of their peers when in fact they had beaten out just 12%. To put that misjudgement in perspective, it

[ace23]

But I see everything is all simpleness and happiness in the world of p tiddy, where intelligence=happiness=money . As Dostoevsky said in one of his novels (something like): 'if i could just spend one day in the body of a 250lb merchant's wife, to feel as she does, to think and believe the things she does, that would provide relief from my sufferings' - likewise, imagine how relieving it would be to spend a few days in the oblivious and deluded mess that is p. tiddy's mind and body.

[Dresta]

Oh, and looks like creative genius and mental illness are pretty strongly correlated (even though i never mentioned mental illness, p tiddy just had to bring it up so he could get a personal dig in):

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/22/world/...cent-van-gogh/

and:

By 2012, as many as 30 scientific studies had been completed that uncovered links between creativity and mental illness, particularly disorders that affected mood [source: Hsu].
Researchers conducting one such study of Swedish teenagers discovered straight-A students were four times more likely to develop bipolar disorder, a mental illness marked by alternating moods of elation and depression, illustrating a correlation between intelligence and higher instances of mental illness. As the study subjects' emotional state transitioned from low to high, there was evidence of increased activity in the frontal lobe of the brain. This area is known for regulating creativity.
The study was expanded in 2012 to include more than 1 million participants, and researchers reported a link between artists, authors and scientists and the propensity to develop mental illness. Not only bipolar disorder, but a whole suite of mental illnesses, from drug abuse to anorexia nervosa and depression. A single gene, known as DARPP-32, is suspected to cause the link between intelligence and mental illness. A study found that people with schizophrenia were more likely to have the version of DARPP-32 that boosted performance on tasks involving thinking and filtering of information [source: National Institute of Mental Health].

[-p.tiddy-]

I said "tend"

intelligent people "tend" to be happier "on average"

rich people "tend" to be happier than poor people "on average"

so not that does not mean: intelligence=happiness=money (of course I am just pointing out what you already know)

I even stated earlier

success =/= intelligence, that is true

intelligence =/= happiness...intelligence just makes happiness more likely
being a moron =/= depression...being a moron just makes depression more likely

and
money (success) =/= happiness...money just makes happiness more likely
poverty =/= depression...poverty just makes depression more likely

there is more than a "bit of data" out there on this


you stated that "most successful people are utter morons"...I assume you meant financial success and not just some mental state of well being.

[-p.tiddy-]

Oh, and looks like creative genius and mental illness are pretty strongly correlated (even though i never mentioned mental illness, p tiddy just had to bring it up so he could get a personal dig in):

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/22/world/...cent-van-gogh/

and:

"poor mental health" =/= "mental illness"

[-p.tiddy-]

you have no issues shooting down my studies and brushing them off and then you go on to post an essay from 1933 to back you up


how about showing a study done in the past 10 years that shows some form of evidence that most successful people are morons...

[Dresta]

I said "tend"

intelligent people "tend" to be happier "on average"

rich people "tend" to be happier than poor people "on average"

so not that does not mean: intelligence=happiness=money (of course I am just pointing out what you already know)

I even stated earlier

intelligence =/= happiness...intelligence just makes happiness more likely
being a moron =/= depression...being a moron just makes depression more likely

and
money (success) =/= happiness...money just makes happiness more likely
poverty =/= depression...poverty just makes depression more likely

there is more than a "bit of data" out there on this


you stated that "most successful people are utter morons"...I assume you meant financial success and not just some mental state of well being.

My question is why exactly are you talking about happiness when i said nothing about it? My comment had nothing to do with either happiness or depression, it was about the 'Dunning-Kruger' effect, which you apparently thought i had pulled out of my ass. But for some strange reason you thought depression had something to do with this.

I don't understand. You do not make any sense.

[-p.tiddy-]

My question is why exactly are you talking about happiness when i said nothing about it? My comment had nothing to do with either happiness or depression, it was about the 'Dunning-Kruger' effect, which you apparently thought i had pulled out of my ass. But for some strange reason you thought depression had something to do with this.

I don't understand. You do not make any sense.

if intelligent people view themselves as failures in life, and morons are the opposite, they are full of confidence and view themselves in a good light....would that not equate to intelligent people being unhappy and morons being happy?

at min I would think it would at least trend that way...if what you are saying is true

[Trentknicks]

Neither of you are impressing anyone, stop wasting your time on such a moot point.

[Dresta]

"poor mental health" =/= "mental illness"

I can't fathom what your point is here either. Depression is a mental illness, like bipolar, schizophrenia and others. That collection of studies shows clearly a link between mental illness and creative genius, yet you were blabbering on about how the more intelligent you are, the higher chance your chance of happiness, which is contradicted by the collection of studies i posted (which expand over 1 million people btw, yours was of less than 7,000 ).

you have no issues shooting down my studies and brushing them off and then you go on to post an essay from 1933 to back you up


how about showing a study done in the past 10 years that shows some form of evidence that most successful people are morons...

Your reading comprehension is just so bad i don't know why i bother. I didn't post an essay from 1933, the article was merely pointing out that these findings had been anticipated by many philosophers (and Darwin), and quoted from the example of Russell. The Dunning-Kruger effect was demonstrated in 1999, and the science show discussing it that i posted was written in 2012:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...360#transcript

You can read the full transcript there.

How would i have a study to show that exactly? It wouldn't even be possible to design one due to all the inherent ambiguity of such a question. I did show through the process of deductive logic why it is likely that most of the people who regard themselves as being successful will be morons though.

[-p.tiddy-]

no depression is not usually "mental illness" like schizophrenia

so somehow we all get this "illness" once we lose our jobs/money?



this point of view seems contradictory to someone who refuses to buy into alcoholism being heriditary