Volkswagens new 300 MPG car not allowed in America

[oarabbus]

The article is basically misleading.

For comparison to the car, The Chevy Volt and Volvo V60 get >100 MPGe and they are both plug-in hybrids. The important thing to note is the EPA created a metric called "Miles per gallon equivalent" or MPGe specifically to compare plug-in hybrids to 'traditional' hybrids and gasoline cars. They are different than "traditional" hybrids which only have a hybrid drivetrain and a small battery that can only engage all-electric mode in certain situations.

Plug in hybrids don't actually get 150 or 300mpg; they get 50mpg (or whatever) when using the hybrid engine, and "infinity" mpg when using purely electric mode since you are travelling distance but using 0 gasoline. However, you are using battery power which must be recharged. The MPGe metric combines the miles per gallon as well as the miles per kilowatt hours of energy used in electric mode into one metric which gives you 300mpg.

Anyway, the MPGe is kinda BS because you can make it artificially high with an extremely light car with a good battery like that Volswagen XL1. What I'm saying is the difference between 150 and 300mpge isn't as big as it seems it is, and there's no conspiracy to "ban" this car. Factor in commute length compared to battery range, and the cost of electricity (and gas) in your area... MPGe starts to become less helpful. It's just like basketball advanced statistics, really. TS% or eFG% are useful in very specific scenarios but not for most circumstances.

The Volkswagen in the OP is basically a "concept car" or a very small design/release model. It also hasn't been actually rated by the EPA, where it would likely get a lower rating

Volkswagen says that the XL1 will be most fuel-efficient car on the plant, with a UK rating of 313 MPG, or 261 MPGe here in the US, although the eventual US MPGe figure will be lower given the discrepancies between the EPA and the European NEDC testing system.

Based on other vehicles rated on both systems, we can fairly accurate assess that the US efficiency number will be around 175 MPGe; still far and away ahead of the EPA’s current leader, the Scion iQ EV at 121 MPGe.

edit: there is some underlying truth in the article; the automobile and energy industries don't want to change the status quo. Just look at how hard Tesla direct-to-consumer sales are being fought in some states right now

[secund2nun]

Yeah, that was too separate points. Hence the "Also."

You're promoting nonsense from a conspiracy website that was the point about facts.

The other point was in reference to you complaining that the starting at $80,000 Tesla's are expensive while saying that the far more expensive Volkswagen in this thread is only being kept down because of THE MAN!

First of all I was not talking about the expensive Volkswagen when making the complaint, which is why I posted the article about the other low cost high MPG cars which is what I was taking about not to mention no matter how expensive it is it should still not be banned in the US.

So facts and prices taken directly off of the car maker's website is a conspiracy?

Go on www.seat.co.uk and look up the range price list for April 2014 and the seat Toledo product leaflet.

These are accurate prices and MPG:

1.6 liter Seat Toledo (83 mpg)=23,000 dollars
1.2 liter Seat Toledo (64 mpg)=19,000 dollars.
European Nissan Qashqai SUV (56 mph)= 24,000 dollars
European Toyota Urban Cruiser (53 mpg)= 23,000 dollars

[KevinNYC]

Only 65,000? 65,000 is very expensive not to mention the maintenance in hybrids is expensive

Compare that to the European Nissan Qashqai SUV (56 mph) which you can get 24,000 dollars.

The European Toyota Urban Cruiser has 53 mpg and you can get it for 23,000 dollars.

You can get the 1.6 liter Seat Toledo (83 mpg) for 23,000 dollars and the 1.2 liter Seat Toledo (64 mpg) for 19,000 dollars.

Hmm 83 mpg Toledo for 23,000 or 85 mpg Tesla for 65,000?

Some facts for you

Car Companies rebrand cars for different markets

Nissan Qashqai
The Qashqai is not offered in North American markets. Instead, Nissan offers the Nissan Rogue. Although larger and appearing to be a completely different model it is based on the same basic platform as the Qashqai

Toyota Urban Cruiser
The Toyota ist is a subcompact car made in Japan by Toyota. It is exported to the United States as the Scion xA and Scion xD and to Europe as the Urban Cruiser.

Seat Toledo
A seat Toledo is basically a Volkswagen Golf

You're talking different units

Imperial gallon just over 4.5L
US gallon just under 3.8 L

European emission standards are not higher. The might be higher for CO2, but not for NO2. The US standard is 4 times as strict.

Additionally, since diesel doesn't evaporate like gasoline, the pumps are dirtier--no matter how clean those diesel engines are. And then there's another challenge for diesels--stricter U.S. emission regulations. The 50-state light-duty vehicle limit for emissions of nitrogen oxides is 0.07 grams per mile. In Western Europe, the limit is 0.29. Reducing NOx to nitrogen and oxygen is much harder with a diesel engine because the exhaust is typically cooler and contains less oxygen compared to a gas engine. To meet U.S. regulations, diesel engines are required to use complicated--and expensive--high-pressure fuel injection and after-treatment systems that in some cases inject an aqueous urea solution to handle the NOx. The added expense of course means an even longer payback period for the consumer.

[secund2nun]

Some facts for you

Car Companies rebrand cars for different markets


You're talking different units


European emission standards are not higher. The might be higher for CO2, but not for NO2. The US standard is 4 times as strict.

No I am not. The MPG I listed were already adjusted from imperial to US.

Nissan Qashqai SUV= 56 US MPG
Toyota Urban Cruiser= 53 US MPG
Seat Toledo= 64 US MPG (80 imperial), 83 US MPG (100 imperial)

As for CO2 and NO2 I don't really care about that. I care about MPG and the availability of high MPG cars in the country and the price of those cars. High MPG is what costs the gas companies money and saves the people money.

As for the US version of the cars, the US version of the Toyota Urban Cruiser (Scion) has much worse MPG than the European version for example. The US version of the Nissan Qashqai SUV has only 26 mpg compared to 56 mpg for the European version.

[KevinNYC]

When you compare apples to apples and you add in the features needed to comply with US emission standards, a VW Golf turbodiesel gets 42 miles per US gallon on the highway.

[KevinNYC]

As for CO2 and NO2 I don't really care about that. I care about MPG and the availability of high MPG cars in the country and the price of those cars. High MPG is what costs the gas companies money and saves the people money.

Doesn't matter if you don't care about it, it's a major reasons for the differences when comparing US cars to European cars.

We used to have major problem with Acid Rain in this country and that's why our emission standards are different from Europe's.


If your argument is real, point to the law that bans these cheap European supercars.

[KeylessEntry]

the main reason we dont have higher mpg cars in the states is because most american consumers have no interest in tiny plastic cars with 1 liter engines

[secund2nun]

Doesn't matter if you don't care about it, it's a major reasons for the differences when comparing US cars to European cars.

We used to have major problem with Acid Rain in this country and that's why our emission standards are different from Europe's.


If your argument is real, point to the law that bans these cheap European supercars.

CO2 and NO2 has little to do with corporate greed like MPG does. CO2 and NO2 doesn't cost the corporations anything, nor does it save consumers money.

MPG does and that is what the debate is about. MPG will directly hurt gas company profits while saving people money.

When you compare apples to apples and you add in the features needed to comply with US emission standards, a VW Golf turbodiesel gets 42 miles per US gallon on the highway.

I am not talking about the VW.

Here are the facts:

European Nissan Qashqai = 56 US MPG
American Nissan Qashqai = 26 US MPG

Seat Toledo= 64, 80 US MPG (banned in US)

Toyota Urban Cruiser= 53 US MPG
US Version of Urban Cruiser (Scion SUV)= 28 US MPG

[secund2nun]

n/a

[fiddy]

the main reason we dont have higher mpg cars in the states is because most american consumers have no interest in tiny plastic cars with 1 liter engines

Actually hybrid cars sell better in the U.S. than in Europe.

[Draz]

My girlfriend chevy Cruz does like 240-270MPG

Lightweight
Pretty good interior
Exterior looks good

[enayes]

My girlfriend chevy Cruz does like 240-270MPG

Lightweight
Pretty good interior
Exterior looks good

the cruze gets like 40 MPG

[KevinNYC]

Bullshit on banned in the US.

Show me the law that prevents them from selling that car here.

Also show me a US Seat dealership to begin with.

[KevinNYC]

Actually hybrid cars sell better in the U.S. than in Europe.

The US solution for better MPG is hybrids. The European solution is diesel fueled cars that don't have to meet US emission standards.

[KeylessEntry]

Actually hybrid cars sell better in the U.S. than in Europe.

yeah because europeans would rather buy crappy little diesels for 10k instead of spending 30k on a prius. nobody buys diesel in the states.