Who Would Win: Flash or Goku

[Timmy D for MVP]

Because I hate arguing the same thing over again since we addressed speed feats earlier in the thread. There is simply no reason to even argue speed feats anymore because no matter what Flash is just faster.

Okay... extra words confuse you.

Do you argue the Goku feats?

[Jameerthefear]

Okay... extra words confuse you.

Do you argue the Goku feats?

Which ones am I arguing?

[Timmy D for MVP]

Which ones am I arguing?

The after image trick which he an multiple characters can do in DB, and the lowest ends of the ability level in canon.

And his ability to dodge an attack in a manner in which it just goes through him, which occurred for sure when fighting the Ginyu force and possibly other times. Again at base form.

[Jameerthefear]

How many times has he done it? Can he run in space with nothing to push against?

Here's my thing. Goku as a kid was able to create two after images of himself by just moving fast. In his base form on Namek he dodged an attack so fast that observers thought it just went through him. Both of these require severe speed approaching light speed. He does have the ability to travel faster than light, albeit in a roundabout way with Instant Transmission. His speed feats are really tough to measure since there aren't really any concrete measures in his Universe. Straight forward speed is less important than hand to hand speed.

The more I think about it the more I think it's a moot argument unless it can be proved that The Flash can deliver an IMP on a whim, in space, and would do so immediately. Goku isn't smart in a traditional sense but he is a very good fighter and tactician. The longer the fight goes the worse off it is for his opponent. Especially so in this case because he gets exponentially more powerful with each progressive form. If he decides to take it to SSJ3 it makes him all the more dangerous. And with comparing speed the hardest part of the process and that's the main crux, I can see why I've never heard this match up before. We can just talk in circles.

The Flash won't be able to damage him with normal attacks.

So Jameer if you can prove to me that the IMP is something he can just bust out in space with nothing to run against and would do so, then sure Flash wins. Otherwise I'm not so sure.

Oh okay this is easy then.

First part, yes. The speed force allows him to do this.

Second part
The simple fact of the matter is that there isn't anything to measure Goku's speed. Even if we did we both know from feats that he's magnitudes slower. He simply doesn't have the feats Flash does, so it's 100% correct to say he can't go that fast. Afterimage isn't really even an issue since no one in the DBZ universe approaches Flash in speed. I posted a scan earlier of Flash using the IMP on whim. He even states himself that he could have done 1,000 more before the martian even blinked. If that isn't a direct way to tell he can throw one at any moment I'm not sure what is. If one IMP took down a guy with superman-level endurance then it sure as hell will take down Goku. If not one than many will. It doesn't really matter how strong Goku gets because he simply can't hit him.

I guess if you bring in personalities you could say Flash wouldn't hit him right off the bat which is true, but Goku isn't going in for the kill so easily either.

[Timmy D for MVP]

And this is my point exactly. It is almost impossible to determine speed feats in the DBZ Universe and that is the crux of this argument. Given that Goku is a Superman level character, and Flash has been written on occasions to be both above and below Supes I feel like this particular match-up is not one that can be argued. You can argue this part of Flash canon, whereas I can argue another.

You said yourself there is no way to determine Goku's speed and then immediately said but it's not at Flash's level. I would tend to agree, and I would tend to favor Flash, but I can't say for certain either way since feats work differently in both worlds.

This is why the Anime/manga draft we tried to do fell apart. It's too difficult to define certain things.

[Jameerthefear]

And this is my point exactly. It is almost impossible to determine speed feats in the DBZ Universe and that is the crux of this argument. Given that Goku is a Superman level character, and Flash has been written on occasions to be both above and below Supes I feel like this particular match-up is not one that can be argued. You can argue this part of Flash canon, whereas I can argue another.

You said yourself there is no way to determine Goku's speed and then immediately said but it's not at Flash's level. I would tend to agree, and I would tend to favor Flash, but I can't say for certain either way since feats work differently in both worlds.

This is why the Anime/manga draft we tried to do fell apart. It's too difficult to define certain things.

That's dumb though. We CAN determine Goku is slower. Feats determine that. By the same instance I could say Naruto is faster than Flash or something ridiculous like that. I didn't want to bring up this argument, but Flash doesn't really have a "max" speed. He's as fast as he wants to be.

[Timmy D for MVP]

That's dumb though. We CAN determine Goku is slower. Feats determine that. By the same instance I could say Naruto is faster than Flash or something ridiculous like that. I didn't want to bring up this argument, but Flash doesn't really have a "max" speed. He's as fast as he wants to be.

But his practical speed seems to be comparable no? We have to assume it's possible he can fight, not just move, but fight at multiple FTL speeds in higher forms right?

Given that Goku can IT he can also in theory be as fast as he wants to be. Shit in theory he could IT and just blow up what ever solar system he was currently in. Actual stated ability is less important than written ability, and tendencies. And that is where it all breaks down.

Let's do this. Where do you stand on Supes v. Goku?

[Jameerthefear]

But his practical speed seems to be comparable no? We have to assume it's possible he can fight, not just move, but fight at multiple FTL speeds in higher forms right?

Given that Goku can IT he can also in theory be as fast as he wants to be. Shit in theory he could IT and just blow up what ever solar system he was currently in. Actual stated ability is less important than written ability, and tendencies. And that is where it all breaks down.

Let's do this. Where do you stand on Supes v. Goku?

Just the fact that he has to think makes him slower than Flash.

As far Supes vs. Goku I'm on Supe's side.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Just the fact that he has to think makes him slower than Flash.

As far Supes vs. Goku I'm on Supe's side.

Mkay and what determines Superman's victory?

[TheReal Kendall]

Can you explain how Deathstroke managed to kill Flash so easily?

[Jameerthefear]

Can you explain how Deathstroke managed to kill Flash so easily?

plot induced stupidity.

[Jameerthefear]

Mkay and what determines Superman's victory?

Couldn't go in depth. Out of what I've read on other forums Supe's heat vision is key though. I don't read any superman comics though.

[KyrieTheFuture]

It's just classic Jameer that he's a god damn Flash stan

[iamgine]

Okay again I'm not convinced that his practical fight speed feats dwarf Goku's. That scan up there where the dude punches through Flash is identical to when Goku dodged an attack where it went through him.

It doesn't matter what his fight speed is because Goku's speed are so far below him.

Unless you think Flash's practical fight speed is millions of times slower than his non-fight speed (which would make no sense).

Of course, Flash's easy victory is all in theory based on his abilities. Based on how writers usually write them, Goku would've won easily.