Ginobili is carrying the Spurs

[SCdac]

I could really see him maxing out as a 28-29 ppg guy in his prime. He's certainly an elite shooting guard in history, just a touch below a guy like Drexler.

Tier 1:
Jordan

Tier 2:
Bryant
West
Robertson

Tier 3:
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Gervin

Tier 4:
Ginobili
Carter
McGrady
Jones

Tier 5:
Allen
Miller

As far as Manu, seems about right.

I think he's a top 20 shooting guard of all time definitely.

So much of rankings is subjective and always will be. The more multiple eras are combined the more murky it gets IMO, but having said that Manu has certainly proven himself in his era .

Not a stretch to say he'd lead a team to 40-50 wins while putting up 20+, especially in the Eastern Conference. He lead the Spurs in PPG a handful of seasons back and that's 'competing' with Duncan and Parker for shots.

[SCdac]

As far as depth, yeah it can be overrated (see the LA Clippers), but it's absolutely necessary for a team with no super stars. If anything, the Spurs bench is slowly coming to life. And SA is lucky to have a player like Manu willing to come off the bench. Some of it is not necessarily that "depth is overrated" but rather player like Patty and Marco are not rich in playoff experience (ie. playoff jitters), let alone for a tough coach like Pop.

[robert_shaww]

As far as Manu, seems about right.

I think he's a top 20 shooting guard of all time definitely.

So much of rankings is subjective and always will be. The more multiple eras are combined the more murky it gets IMO, but having said that Manu has certainly proven himself in his era .

Not a stretch to say he'd lead a team to 40-50 wins while putting up 20+, especially in the Eastern Conference. He lead the Spurs in PPG a handful of seasons back and that's 'competing' with Duncan and Parker for shots.

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

[thefatmiral]

splitter has been great and essential. duncan and gino got us our first win. i doubted splitter before this. kawhi belli and diaw are missing. parker is attacking and making his jumpers, good enough.

[tragicbronson]

Depth has been and always will be the most over-rated thing in the playoffs.

You win off stars and a solid rotation of 7 guys.

Going 9 or 10 deep really just doesn't matter...and honestly it can hurt you at times.

Nuggets come first to my mind, i mean the nuggets from last year, actually a 12 player rotation that couldn't go past the first round. Depth can be a key in the regular season but it's not nearly that effective in the playoffs where you need your best players to perform.

[SCdac]

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

Top 20 what? most entertaining players ever? ... might agree with that, might ...

But if you're talking about player rankings I disagree. No doubt he's one of the best players to ever play in the NBA (top-10). Groundhog Day, the Big Fundamental... whatever you want to call him, he's a legend... One of the only players to lead a team in taking down Shaq's Lakers at the height of their success.

I don't think Duncan is overrated at all... If anything I think he's going to become underrated to the newer generations of fans who didn't watch him in his prime (he was an elite and dominant scorer when need be).

[robert_shaww]

Top 20 what? most entertaining players ever? ... might agree with that, might ...

But if you're talking about player rankings I disagree. No doubt he's one of the best players to ever play in the NBA (top-10). Groundhog Day, the Big Fundamental... whatever you want to call him, he's a legend... One of the only players to lead a team in taking down Shaq's Lakers at the height of their success.

I don't think Duncan is overrated at all... If anything I think he's going to become underrated to the newer generations of fans who didn't watch him in his prime (he was an elite and dominant scorer when need be).

I love Duncan, dont get me wrong, im a spurs fan, but i cant understand why Gino with 37 years old has to still carry this team...its too much, he is not Jordan. Still, Manu is playing great, but Ducan and Parker must step up. If Duncan is top 5 ever, then Manu is top 50, dont forget the 2005 playoffs, please.

[oarabbus]

So TRUE. Thats spurs problem for ever. Pop is overrated, and im serious.

You don't know basketball

[SCdac]

I love Duncan, dont get me wrong, im a spurs fan, but i cant understand why Gino with 37 years old has to still carry this team...its too much, he is not Jordan. Still, Manu is playing great, but Ducan and Parker must step up. If Duncan is top 5 ever, then Manu is top 50, dont forget the 2005 playoffs, please.

Oh, I haven't forgotten. Ginobili is my favorite player all time.

But he's not on Duncan's tier of amazingness (and that's not an insult, 99% of players aren't on Duncan's level).

Duncan has alot of mileage, keep in mind (roughly 3 seasons worth of playoff games played). He was winning his first ring when alot of people on this board were in elementary school.

You should understand that every great player receives/received help. It's not a knock on Tim or any of those players.

[DMAVS41]

As far as depth, yeah it can be overrated (see the LA Clippers), but it's absolutely necessary for a team with no super stars. If anything, the Spurs bench is slowly coming to life. And SA is lucky to have a player like Manu willing to come off the bench. Some of it is not necessarily that "depth is overrated" but rather player like Patty and Marco are not rich in playoff experience (ie. playoff jitters), let alone for a tough coach like Pop.

Oh of course...but this is why teams with no superstars hardly ever win.

But yes, of course, a team with no super stars better be deep or they just have no chance.

[T_L_P]

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

Please, make your case for Manu and Parker being better than Duncan in '05 and '07.

[robert_shaww]

Please, make your case for Manu and Parker being better than Duncan in '05 and '07.

Manu per 36 in 2005 playoffs:

52% FG
7,1 Reb
6,2 Ast
23,1 Pts


Duncan per 36 in 2005 Playoffs:

47% FG
11.8 Reb
2.9 Ast
21.9 Pts


Manu killed Denver on the road in the 1st round (George karl mas mad as hell) destroyed seattle in the semis, also scoring 39 pts in pivotal game 5 with the series 2-2, and played a terific series vs the 1st seed Suns (same series duncan was demolished by Amare)
In the Finals, well, he won the series, and was the best player in the court in games 1, 2 6 and 7 at home. (Ben Wallace was the MVP killing Duncan in the paint).

[T_L_P]

Manu per 36 in 2005 playoffs:

52% FG
7,1 Reb
6,2 Ast
23,1 Pts


Duncan per 36 in 2005 Playoffs:

47% FG
11.8 Reb
2.9 Ast
21.9 Pts


Manu killed Denver on the road in the 1st round (George karl mas mad as hell) destroyed seattle in the semis, also scoring 39 pts in pivotal game 5 with the series 2-2, and played a terific series vs the 1st seed Suns (same series duncan was demolished by Amare)
In the Finals, well, he won the series, and was the best player in the court in games 1, 2 6 and 7 at home. (Ben Wallace was the MVP killing Duncan in the paint).

How did I know it would come down to something as stupid as Per 36 numbers.

If Manu was the clear MVP of the Spurs, why wasn't he playing more minutes? Maybe because he couldn't, as he's never been a big minute guy for the Spurs (for whatever reason).

Duncan was the main focus of the opponents defense. He was still commanding doubles and anchoring one of the best defenses in the league. Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich both said Duncan is what got them to the promised land.

Also, what about 2007? Did you look up the Per 36 number and realise Parker actually played more minutes than Duncan in the Playoffs, and his production was still not close to Tim's?

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season.

[robert_shaww]

How did I know it would come down to something as stupid as Per 36 numbers.

If Manu was the clear MVP of the Spurs, why wasn't he playing more minutes? Maybe because he couldn't, as he's never been a big minute guy for the Spurs (for whatever reason).

Duncan was the main focus of the opponents defense. He was still commanding doubles and anchoring one of the best defenses in the league. Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich both said Duncan is what got them to the promised land.

Also, what about 2007? Did you look up the Per 36 number and realise Parker actually played more minutes than Duncan in the Playoffs, and his production was still not close to Tim's?

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season.

Per 36 is a perfect objetive stat. you just say: "duncan was the best...we got to promise land with him..." fine...

if you want we can talk about any playoffs series. 08 vs hornets...11 vs memphis...12 vs OKC....05 vs suns....

[robert_shaww]

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season.


copy paste that please.