Alcindor and Robertson VS Kareem and Magic

[La Frescobaldi]

I'm a huge fan of Magic, but the reality was, that '71 Buck team has a case as the greatest ever, or at the very least, a top-5 team of all-time. Their ppg differentials, both in the regular season and playoffs; and their FG% differentials, both regular season, and post-season, were just staggering. And had they not coasted in their last six games of the regular season (when they were 65-11), and they likely would have won 70 games and set a ppg differential that would have blown away the '72 Lakers and '96 Bulls.

Not only that, but I still say that that was a PEAK Kareem, who not only was unstoppable offensively, but who also anchored the best defense in the league.

THAT Kareem ranks right at the top, with anyone else who has ever played the game. Even a past-his-prime Oscar would be enough to win that "H2H" battle.

The OP scenario is 2 on 2 tho, Laz, not that Bucks team vs. a later Lakers squad.

[LAZERUSS]

The OP scenario is 2 on 2 tho, Laz, not that Bucks team vs. a later Lakers squad.

Well, it would be a case of a more prime Magic, with a very good Kareem, but a Kareem who was not a great rebounder or defender...going against a past-his-prime Oscar, and a Kareem who was an unstoppable offensive force, a great rebounder, and a defensive anchor.

[La Frescobaldi]

How do you think Oscar would of handled Magic? Obviously it would of been a battle, but if I'm not mistaken you've probably seen more Oscar than anyone here

Oscar was the whole package, no question about that. He was a much better outside shooter than Magic, and had an ability to drive that was pretty much unmatched - in his 20s. But not at 32 yo.

Magic is falsely notorious for his defense, which was actually pretty solid most of the time. He couldn't really stop the great guards it is true - who ever can? - but he could force them into Kareem (or Rambis or Cooper), who were very high levels indeed.
Oscar's D is also underrated, but Magic's was better.

Johnson drive and dish in this 2 on 2 scenario (or any scenario, imo) is beating Oscar's d&d, and Johnson's defense is going to get more stops. Magic out-rebounds a 32 y.o. Oscar as well.

Of course it's woolly to think a younger Kareem can ever beat the older Kareem, since the older Kareem knows exactly what the younger Kareem will do before he does it !!

But if you had a dual universe thing going........



the older Kareem has too much experience, was much stronger physically, understood defense to a far greater degree, had fine-tuned that skyhook to a cruise missile effectiveness, and could still run like a deer.

To me it won't be close really.

[dreamwarrior]

magic and oscar cancel each other out. both can score on the other. but 23yo alcindor was obviously leaps beyond 32yo kareem who wasn't even 2nd option at that point in his career

[Kblaze8855]

magic and oscar cancel each other out. both can score on the other. but 23yo alcindor was obviously leaps beyond 32yo kareem who wasn't even 2nd option at that point in his career

Kareem was the MVP at 32.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_kn6kLRs5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV7-mkVF2rA

Thats 32 year old Kareem.

[jongib369]

Kareem was the MVP at 32.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMIC4zKK_nE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_kn6kLRs5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV7-mkVF2rA

Thats 32 year old Kareem.

Thanks for the videos, haven't seen 2 of them before. Watching that man go to work is a sight to see. It's a shame he missed Russell by a year, or Shaq by a few. Wouldn't be the best matchup considering the ages they would of been....But, I've always been fascinated to see players link different eras that way...people seem to think a lot more time had passed since they played than there was....I don't feel that old, only 23....Yet you subtract that from the year I was born Kareem wasn't in the NBA yet









Anyways, have an opinion about the OP?

[bizil]

Oscar was the whole package, no question about that. He was a much better outside shooter than Magic, and had an ability to drive that was pretty much unmatched - in his 20s. But not at 32 yo.

Magic is falsely notorious for his defense, which was actually pretty solid most of the time. He couldn't really stop the great guards it is true - who ever can? - but he could force them into Kareem (or Rambis or Cooper), who were very high levels indeed.
Oscar's D is also underrated, but Magic's was better.

Johnson drive and dish in this 2 on 2 scenario (or any scenario, imo) is beating Oscar's d&d, and Johnson's defense is going to get more stops. Magic out-rebounds a 32 y.o. Oscar as well.

Of course it's woolly to think a younger Kareem can ever beat the older Kareem, since the older Kareem knows exactly what the younger Kareem will do before he does it !!

But if you had a dual universe thing going........



the older Kareem has too much experience, was much stronger physically, understood defense to a far greater degree, had fine-tuned that skyhook to a cruise missile effectiveness, and could still run like a deer.

To me it won't be close really.

I agree with u in terms of Magic's D. He was far from great, no question about it. But he was very good maybe even great at team D. He was often times among the league leader in steals. Which indicates great hands and anticipation. I think u could say the same about Bird for that matter. It's just that in terms of one on one defense on an island type stuff, they weren't nearly as effective.

But Magic's size and the Lakers lineup allowed him to guard SF's and PF's. He didn't have to be stuck defending PG or SG. Riley could choose the matchup most suitable. I think it's better to be an average man on man defender Magic's size than an average defender at 6'1.

[mr4speed]

I agree with u in terms of Magic's D. He was far from great, no question about it. But he was very good maybe even great at team D. He was often times among the league leader in steals. Which indicates great hands and anticipation. I think u could say the same about Bird for that matter. It's just that in terms of one on one defense on an island type stuff, they weren't nearly as effective.

But Magic's size and the Lakers lineup allowed him to guard SF's and PF's. He didn't have to be stuck defending PG or SG. Riley could choose the matchup most suitable. I think it's better to be an average man on man defender Magic's size than an average defender at 6'1.

Just my opinion and of course impossible to prove but I would have to choose "Lew & big "O". Why, I feel there is no way an older Kareem (and to be fair any player) could outplay himself 9 years later, especially in a 2 on 2 scenario where there is zero "coast" time as opposed to a 5 on 5 situation. Also I would give the edge to Oscar, Why? Magic at this point in his career was nowhere near as good as he would become from 87 and on. Look at the 83 finals when Magic was 23 years old. Moses just dominated Kareem but where was Magic? He had a horrible series and nobody ever talks about it. He shot a pathetic 40.3 % from the floor ( a drop off of 14.5 % from the regular season) and he committed 24 turnovers in only 4 games. I think a very wise O would more than hold his own against a young Magic.

[SHAQisGOAT]

2-on-2? Probably Lew and Oscar. And for one season (1971) I'd might take them, even with really strong competition against some seasons (1980 or 1987).

Building a team? Definitely Kareem and Magic, going by what actually happened.