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Good High School Starter
Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
the Iraq war has wasted something north of 6 trillion dollars, killed thousands of American soldiers, killed over one million innocent civilians, and now it is about to fall, again, this time to jihadists.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/islam...tal-1402562192
biggest American foreign policy disaster? up there with Vietnam, or worse?
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NBA Legend
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
yes, going in there was always dumb as hell.
it was always a broken country that would have devolved into civil war once their strong man dictator fell.
the fact that the Bush admin was able to get the media to be complicit and actually cheer lead us into the invasion is a disgrace.
at our media buying bullshit lies like Iraq being capable of hitting us w/nuclear missiles when their military was made of outdated shit they bought from the Chinese in the 70s.
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LOL Maker, Intraweb
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
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World's Finest
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
nah we got some good oil out of it I'm sure
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O LA DI PO
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by kentatm
yes, going in there was always dumb as hell.
it was always a broken country that would have devolved into civil war once their strong man dictator fell.
the fact that the Bush admin was able to get the media to be complicit and actually cheer lead us into the invasion is a disgrace.
at our media buying bullshit lies like Iraq being capable of hitting us w/nuclear missiles when their military was made of outdated shit they bought from the Chinese in the 70s.
Had to have an event that would unite all American citizens so we would be okay with the invasion.. something like a.... 9/11?
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Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by kentatm
yes, going in there was always dumb as hell.
it was always a broken country that would have devolved into civil war once their strong man dictator fell.
the fact that the Bush admin was able to get the media to be complicit and actually cheer lead us into the invasion is a disgrace.
at our media buying bullshit lies like Iraq being capable of hitting us w/nuclear missiles when their military was made of outdated shit they bought from the Chinese in the 70s.
The majority of both parties approved the war in Congress.
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Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Honestly for america, this is a good thing.
Sunni Control of Iraq will prevent A superstate (iran + Iraq) forming that would totally rebalance the American friendly middle east.
And yes the governments of the middle east are american friends. Eg. the House of Saud.
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NBA Legend
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by ItsMillerTime
Had to have an event that would unite all American citizens so we would be okay with the invasion.. something like a.... 9/11?
Anyone who had any understanding of Saddam and the ME should have known that Saddam would not be working w/a person like OBL.
Saddam had zero friends in the region (that happens when you attack everyone) and knew the US was more than happy to **** his shit up if they had an excuse. He was a horrible human being but he wasn't a moron and wouldn't have taken that kind of risk because he had already seen how badly his military would be whipped against our forces in the first Gulf War. Never mind that OBL was a radical Jihadist while Saddam was a secular leader. OBL would want nothing more than to pop a cap in his ass. Those two were always enemies.
Originally Posted by Akrazotile
The majority of both parties approved the war in Congress.
Yes this is true.
and it happened AFTER the Bush admin started trotting out complete horseshit via the media (who never questioned their claims) that whipped the populace into being angry enough to support a war, which in turn led to a ton of spineless Dems who were scared of being called soft on terror to go ahead and agree w/the Bush admin on the invasion.
That war never happens if the Bush admin wasn't dead set on going after Saddam from the get go. Congress didn't just wake up one day and start claiming Saddam was behind 9/11.
This is why I'll never vote for people like Hillary (who damn well should have known it was all bullshit) who supported going in on obviously false pretenses.
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Game. Set. Match.
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Our goal was never to provide stability to the country, so we didn't fail.
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Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by bdreason
Our goal was never to provide stability to the country, so we didn't fail.
Partially Correct.
Although we did fail. We wanted to put in a pro-America government.
Eg. the house of saud, The Al Nahyan family, House of Khalifa, etc.
It seems our 2 options now are a violent Sunni extremist government. Or an elected shia government. Given those 2 options obviously for selfish american interests it is best Iraq be lead by violent sunni extremists.
At least then we know that an Iran-Iraq alliance is unlikely.
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Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by kentatm
Anyone who had any understanding of Saddam and the ME should have known that Saddam would not be working w/a person like OBL.
Saddam had zero friends in the region (that happens when you attack everyone) and knew the US was more than happy to **** his shit up if they had an excuse. He was a horrible human being but he wasn't a moron and wouldn't have taken that kind of risk because he had already seen how badly his military would be whipped against our forces in the first Gulf War. Never mind that OBL was a radical Jihadist while Saddam was a secular leader. OBL would want nothing more than to pop a cap in his ass. Those two were always enemies.
Yes this is true.
and it happened AFTER the Bush admin started trotting out complete horseshit via the media (who never questioned their claims) that whipped the populace into being angry enough to support a war, which in turn led to a ton of spineless Dems who were scared of being called soft on terror to go ahead and agree w/the Bush admin on the invasion.
That war never happens if the Bush admin wasn't dead set on going after Saddam from the get go. Congress didn't just wake up one day and start claiming Saddam was behind 9/11.
This is why I'll never vote for people like Hillary (who damn well should have known it was all bullshit) who supported going in on obviously false pretenses.
The really stupid part is Saddam overall was good for american interests.
He scared our allies in the region (saudis, bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, etc) and was weak enough that we could quite easily liberate our allies if he actually did attack.
He made our allies more dependant on us.
He also served as a great hedge against Iran. Iraq is like 60-65% Shia. Saddam dominated them and placed Sunnis at the head of the country. This made it impossible to work with Iran. A Democratic government in Iraq realistical is going to be Shia dominated and most likely pro-Iran.
One of the stupidest things the US has ever done was to try to remove Saddam. The only thing dumber would have been to try to remove the House of Saud or Mubarak back in the day.
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An uglier Lamar Doom
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by Akrazotile
The majority of both parties approved the war in Congress.
under purposefully misleading intelligence from the administration. Its all out there now, but the bush admin purposefully only presented the intelligence that supported invading Iraq, rather than the unbiased intelligence from the actual intelligence community.
Also, they sat on something like 600 billion for most of a year (authorized for the war on terror) and then used it to invade iraq.
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~the original p.tiddy~
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Perhaps it needs to "fall"
I mean shit, if that country is ever going to evolve from the dark ages then things need to happen. It's a disaster today but when hasn't that country been a disaster?
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Local High School Star
Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
Perhaps it needs to "fall"
I mean shit, if that country is ever going to evolve from the dark ages then things need to happen. It's a disaster today but when hasn't that country been a disaster?
Agreed.
Let them duke it out without interference. Protect the Kurds in the North but otherwise, this is the only way shit will solve itself.
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Re: Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
Perhaps it needs to "fall"
I mean shit, if that country is ever going to evolve from the dark ages then things need to happen. It's a disaster today but when hasn't that country been a disaster?
A fallen Iraq is certainly better for American than a democratic iraq.
A democratic Iraq with full and fair elections can only result in close relations with Iran.
We should have either stayed out of Iraq or After we invaded and sent Saddam running, offered control of Iraq to one of his Sunni generals and made him the Iraqi version of Mubarak. Bush's idiotic insistence on democratic elections has screwed Iraq and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict for us.
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