Iraq is about to fall, again. biggest foreign policy failure of all time?

[bladefd]

The results for this is almost equivalent to Vietnam part 2. I guess people never learned from Vietnam war..

[MavsSuperFan]

The results for this is almost equivalent to Vietnam part 2. I guess people never learned from Vietnam war..

Its actually very different from vietnam.

America never had a chance in vietnam. Ho Chi Minh was beloved and we would have never overcome his vision of a united vietnam.

I believe had Bush not been naive and stupid, it was possible to set up a Sunni, secular, pro american dictatorship in Iraq.

[~primetime~]

The results for this is almost equivalent to Vietnam part 2. I guess people never learned from Vietnam war..

4.5 thousand died in Iraq

58 thousand died in Nam

We would need another 12 or so more Iraq wars for it to be part 2.

[KevinNYC]

the Iraq war has wasted something north of 6 trillion dollars, killed thousands of American soldiers, killed over one million innocent civilians, and now it is about to fall, again, this time to jihadists.

Where are you getting your figures from?

[Derka]

Good. Islam *needs* a civil war.

Moderate Muslims preach up and down that extremists are not the majority...that the quacks that want to hide women inside at all times and follow hardline interpretations of the religion are a small number.

Well. Prove it. Stand up and fight for yourselves.

[KevinNYC]

The majority of both parties approved the war in Congress.

There was never a vote for the War in Congress. There was a vote to approve military force to enforce the existing UN Security Council resolutions against Iraq that Saddam flouted. That was in October 2002

In November 2002 The UN Security Council unanimously approved Resolution 1441 which allowed inspectors to go into Iraq and by the end of November they were on the ground in Iraq. As we know, they didn't find any WMD. Bush claimed the threat from Iraq remained he could have gone back to the Security Council asking for authorization for use of force, but he didn't.

According to the Iraq War Resolution the Congress passed in Nov 2002, the Presdient would have to go back to Congress and explain why there was still a threat to the US. It also explicitly stated nothing in that vote superseded the War Powers Resolution.

SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) Authorization.--The President is authorized to use the Armed
Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and
appropriate in order to--
(1) defend the national security of the United States
against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq.

(b) Presidential Determination.--In connection with the exercise of
the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President
shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible,
but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make
available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the
President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--
(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or
other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately
protect the national security of the United States against the
continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to
enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council
resolutions regarding Iraq; and
(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent
with the United States and other countries continuing to take
the necessary actions against international terrorist and
terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations,
or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the
terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

(c) War Powers Resolution Requirements.--
(1) Specific statutory authorization.--Consistent with
section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution, the Congress
declares that this section is intended to constitute specific
statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of
the War Powers Resolution.
(2) Applicability of other requirements.--Nothing in this
joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers
Resolution.

The war started in March 2003. Bush never went back to Congress or back to the UN security council for approval, because it was quite clear by March 2003, the threat was not what he had said it was.

[KevinNYC]

Your numbers are also incorrect.

The majority of both parties approved the war in Congress.

The vote in November 2002 was

House
Republican
215 yes
6 no

Democratic
82 yes
126 no

Senate
Republican
49 yes
1 no

Democratic
29 yes
21 no

That's about 57% to 43% against the war from one of the parties.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

yes, going in there was always dumb as hell.

it was always a broken country that would have devolved into civil war once their strong man dictator fell.

the fact that the Bush admin was able to get the media to be complicit and actually cheer lead us into the invasion is a disgrace.

at our media buying bullshit lies like Iraq being capable of hitting us w/nuclear missiles when their military was made of outdated shit the bought from America and the CIA in the 80s and 90s.

fixed it for you, maybe some children reading here

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Honestly for america, this is a good thing.

Sunni Control of Iraq will prevent A superstate (iran + Iraq) forming that would totally rebalance the American friendly middle east.

And yes the governments of the middle east are american friends. Eg. the House of Saud.

America is a disgrace and constantly cuasin mass genocides by destabelizating entire regions.
been doing that since WW2

[KevinNYC]

Good. Islam *needs* a civil war.

Moderate Muslims preach up and down that extremists are not the majority...that the quacks that want to hide women inside at all times and follow hardline interpretations of the religion are a small number.

Well. Prove it. Stand up and fight for yourselves.

Wars empower the extremists.

Do you think it's middle class professionals: doctors, lawyers, architects who do better during wars or the guys with guns? Usually during a civil war, civil society collapses. There's tons of evidence of the extremists being empowered from the recent history in Iraq. When the sectarian civil war went full scale in Iraq in 2005-2007 you couldn't just stand on the sidelines. You needed protection, and this drove the population into the hands of sectarians. Check out this map of Baghdad. You can click the settings and the see the changing demographics. Prior to 2006, most of the city had mixed neighborhoods, now you primarily live in a Sunni or Shiite area because it was too dangerous not to be with "your" people.

[KevinNYC]

If Bam Bam lets Iraw fall without even dropping an american bomb, hes lost all my respect.

ISIS doesn't have enough strength to take Baghdad, so it's not going to be a case of Iraq falling so much as Iraq splitting. It would be a three way split.

[MadeFromDust]

No failure except by Obamanation.

Bush attacked the terrorists and Obamallama pussified and retreated. Any results of that is on his increasingly hoary head.

[KevinNYC]

No failure except by Obamanation.

Bush attacked the terrorists and Obamallama pussified and retreated. Any results of that is on his increasingly hoary head.

hoary head?

[Relinquish]

America is a disgrace and constantly cuasin mass genocides by destabelizating entire regions.
been doing that since WW2

Come back when you learn to spell please.

[MavsSuperFan]

America is a disgrace and constantly cuasin mass genocides by destabelizating entire regions.
been doing that since WW2

Arent you british?

America will likely never catch up to all the evil shit britain has done.