An intelligent discussion about consciousness ....

[masonanddixon]

You'll be happy to know that your wrong.

There is no such thing as "Overdevelopement" of the Earth. You would have to assume there is a 'correct' level of development. No such decree has been handed down from on high.

We are also not overpopulated. at 7 Billion people with the population density of Paris we would all fit into 1 urban area the size of Louisiana. If it's crowded where you live and you don't like then you should move. Plenty of empty spaces out there. Try Kansas. We are also not overpopulated from a resource consumption perspective. Commodity prices are actually down year over year since the 60's when all the environmental doom predictions started hitting us. and that is IN SPITE of a growing world population. The case is even better in countries with liberal economies and free trade.



I'm not sure what you mean by destruction of the environment? The world is a big place. I certainly wouldn't want to go to Nuclear waste storage facilities but our forests are more abundant than they have been in hundreds of years. Places like the Sahara have been shrinking. African climate is becoming more conducive to agricultural production and human welfare. Also in spite of Global Warming fears even the IPCC Says that temperatures have risen between 0.3-0.6 degrees in the last 100 years and that if trends continue the Continental shelf ice "COULD" melt in 1000 years. Of course what they don't address is that temperatures have been flat for the last 17 years. Also 99.9% of all species that have ever lived are extinct now. Most of that took place before humans were even walking upright.


As far as Jobs go would you rather work at a desk in a cubicle or be doing the subsistence farming that you would have been doing 200 years ago. Or the coal mine you would have been working in 75 years ago? Your creativity is your own responsibility it has nothing to do with your job.

I'm with you on personal interaction. we need more of it, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to all the other advantages that modern technology brings us.



The earth was not built. There is no target number of people that are supposed to be on the earth. Aside from the empirical evidence that shows that we now have 7 billion with every measure of human development increasing. We also know that 2000 years ago we had global population of about 300 million which was steadily increasing at about .1 percent a year. So even without any kind of modern technology we had a growing population above the number you gave.

You have what Econ professor Bryan Caplan calls "Pessimistic bias". http://cafehayek.com/2014/05/bryan-c...htmlThroughout all of human history progress has been marching forward while the people were predicting destruction and apocalypse. Now is no different.

Now that you know I bet you'll be happy to discard your wildly uninformed speculative hysteria in favor of the fact s!

Wow, I feel sorry for you if you actually believe any of what you wrote in that post.

That's the beauty of consciousness. It's not simply a static or fixed entity, but rather one shaped partly by experiences and environment. My life would be hell if I had to perceive the world through your consciousness.

[MadeFromDust]

I think it is so easy a monkey can do it

[Breezy]

Wow, I feel sorry for you if you actually believe any of what you wrote in that post.

That's the beauty of consciousness. It's not simply a static or fixed entity, but rather one shaped partly by experiences and environment. My life would be hell if I had to perceive the world through your consciousness.

I take the total lack of rebuttal or argumentation as a de-facto admission of error. I know it's upsetting to find out that your wrong. Learn from it and embrace the glorious future we are building for ourselves.

[GimmeThat]

That's the beauty of consciousness. It's not simply a static or fixed entity, but rather one shaped partly by experiences and environment. My life would be hell if I had to perceive the world through your consciousness.

while I agree there might be different degrees of consciousness.

I guess it is safe to say that a life continuously being drugged would be hell.

[masonanddixon]

I take the total lack of rebuttal or argumentation as a de-facto admission of error. I know it's upsetting to find out that your wrong. Learn from it and embrace the glorious future we are building for ourselves.

Your argument was so weak that I have no idea where to start.

Just look at simple concepts-take a place like Queensland which not even 50 years had koalas in people's backyards, and now people haven't seen any in years.

You're also claiming we have more forests than we have ever had before. I mean how to do you expect me to respond to complete lies? Just accept that we have different perceptions of the world and therefore a different working consciousness.

Like I said, the beauty of consciousness is that two people can have two completely different perceptions of reality.

[masonanddixon]

while I agree there might be different degrees of consciousness.

I guess it is safe to say that a life continuously being drugged would be hell.

This doesn't have to do with drugs but as an aside study about the various dopaminergic pathways in the brain, changes in personality associated with neurotransmitter imbalances, and even personality changes to injuries or alterations to the lobes of the brain.

And that's why consciousness is so fascinating. It's much more an infinite labyrinth than it is the set of computer chips fully equipped that the singularity fools would love to have you believe.

[GimmeThat]

Like I said, the beauty of consciousness is that two people can have two completely different perceptions of reality.

how you can confuse consciousness with perception is just, beyond odd.

your best argument may be that someone with a degree that is of less conscious than others only notices short term effects over long term effects. As well as being sensitive to any particular subject matter.

which has nothing to do with perceptions of reality.


Think of it this way, how you think of certain ideas when you are high/drunk (for simplicity sake of nerotransmitter imbalance) most likely will be different than when you are sober. However, will there be REALITY that stands/remainds true in BOTH state of consciousness.

If your answer is no. the f&ck is reality then.


I could even make an argument that perception is taught/coached. And that you gave me someone who if scientifically possible, remain the same with his consciousness and he will view things differently. But then you cry foul "well, that's impossible because when you view things differently, it indirectly changes the neurobalance in our brain."

Which is why, no matter how hard you try to teach/coach someone into thinking a certain way, if it isn't part of the reality. It just won't hold up.

What happens afterwards? well, unless the brain stops working, it will go back to its normal state before some jackass tried to screw around with other peoples brain only to realize it was bull sh*t all along. Even if the jackass actually believed in those bull sh*t himself.



Training Day Mother F&cker

[GimmeThat]

This doesn't have to do with drugs but as an aside study about the various dopaminergic pathways in the brain, changes in personality associated with neurotransmitter imbalances, and even personality changes to injuries or alterations to the lobes of the brain.

And that's why consciousness is so fascinating. It's much more an infinite labyrinth than it is the set of computer chips fully equipped that the singularity fools would love to have you believe.

let me tell you about a story,

and before you say "NO MORE STORIES"

well, see, this story is about a guy named Steve Job, who marched into his new office after being abandoned by his old team, a company he owns even, into a newly delegated area in which he intends to use as his next new project.

Of course, the current existing head or project manager looks at him as if he is crazy, trying to mock him to say, "what, Steve, got delegated here because your other project was a complete failure"

Steve Job simply walks up to him, stares at him right at his eyes and says "XXXX, you've got my attention now, and either you are part of this team or you are not. But you damn sure you have my full attention from now on"



Consciousness.

[Breezy]

Your argument was so weak that I have no idea where to start.

Just look at simple concepts-take a place like Queensland which not even 50 years had koalas in people's backyards, and now people haven't seen any in years.

You're also claiming we have more forests than we have ever had before. I mean how to do you expect me to respond to complete lies? Just accept that we have different perceptions of the world and therefore a different working consciousness.

Like I said, the beauty of consciousness is that two people can have two completely different perceptions of reality.

http://forestry.about.com/library/weekly/aa031900.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/inte...pdf/267na3.pdf

My perception is that you are wrong and that facts are correct.

[shlver]

Consciousness is the result of the energy output of the neurons in your brain, brought about by slowly from non living matter over eons of time. It's the illusion of self determination and free will that we all live under.

Well at the very basic level, but that would be a misrepresentation of whats going on in a conscious vs an unconscious patient. Consciousness has been correlated with synchronicity between the thalamus and modular cortex regions of the brain. Even with neurons firing at different regions of the brain, studies have shown that there need be recurrent loops in the firing of neurons in the thalamocortical circuit. Meaning unconscious patients have neurons firing, but have a disconnect between regions of firing neurons.

[ILLsmak]

I come into threads like these and glance over people's responses to see if I feel anyone understands certain things. I am always disappointed. But hey, insidehoops.

-Smak

[Breezy]

Well at the very basic level, but that would be a misrepresentation of whats going on in a conscious vs an unconscious patient. Consciousness has been correlated with synchronicity between the thalamus and modular cortex regions of the brain. Even with neurons firing at different regions of the brain, studies have shown that there need be recurrent loops in the firing of neurons in the thalamocortical circuit. Meaning unconscious patients have neurons firing, but have a disconnect between regions of firing neurons.

Fascinating stuff! I didn't know all that.

[NZStreetBaller]

great thread man. I read everything. I clearly knew nothing about consciousness but thanks to you smart ass ****ers im now more intelligent

[masonanddixon]

how you can confuse consciousness with perception is just, beyond odd.

your best argument may be that someone with a degree that is of less conscious than others only notices short term effects over long term effects. As well as being sensitive to any particular subject matter.

which has nothing to do with perceptions of reality.


Think of it this way, how you think of certain ideas when you are high/drunk (for simplicity sake of nerotransmitter imbalance) most likely will be different than when you are sober. However, will there be REALITY that stands/remainds true in BOTH state of consciousness.

If your answer is no. the f&ck is reality then.


I could even make an argument that perception is taught/coached. And that you gave me someone who if scientifically possible, remain the same with his consciousness and he will view things differently. But then you cry foul "well, that's impossible because when you view things differently, it indirectly changes the neurobalance in our brain."

Which is why, no matter how hard you try to teach/coach someone into thinking a certain way, if it isn't part of the reality. It just won't hold up.

What happens afterwards? well, unless the brain stops working, it will go back to its normal state before some jackass tried to screw around with other peoples brain only to realize it was bull sh*t all along. Even if the jackass actually believed in those bull sh*t himself.



Training Day Mother F&cker

Perception influences consciousness and consciousness dictates perception.

Stating one as distinct from the other is like forming a sentence with only nouns.