Bill Cosby is top 5 GOAT dancers/entertainer of all time

[32jazz]

i would love to see some of y'all top comedian lists. i really don't know how you don't put Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock ahead of these old school dudes...i swear both Pryor and Cosby were extremely overrated.

talking about stand up only tho.

Like I said I don't like soccer, but I understand ............


And yes Jackson is the model/blame(if you hate that stuff) behind most acts from Madonna /Beyonce/J-Lo ,Usher,Timberlake ,Chris Brown, Janet Jackson,etc.... & on & on......

Unfortunately some foolishly believe Jackson is just an older version of these acts which is patently absurd & ALL of those artists will tell you that they aren't really in his league talent wise. Period.



Richard Pryor stand up over rated? Stop it.

I admit that Pryor movies(due to inferior scripts ) weren't the best , but his stand up is brilliant(even Cosby who dislikes 'blue ' humor acknowledges Pryors greatness)

[Godzuki]

Like I said I don't like soccer, but I understand ............


And yes Jackson is the model/blame(if you hate that stuff) behind most acts from Madonna /Beyonce/J-Lo ,Usher,Timberlake ,Chris Brown, Janet Jackson,etc.... & on & on......

Unfortunately some foolishly believe Jackson is just an older version of these acts which is patently absurd & ALL of those artists will tell you that they aren't really in his league talent wise. Period.



Richard Pryor stand up over rated? Stop it.

I admit that Pryor movies(due to inferior scripts ) weren't the best , but his stand up is brilliant(even Cosby who dislikes 'blue ' humor acknowledges Pryors greatness)

Prior had a real casual stye...almost insecure-like. he and a lot of old timers become very over exaggerated in hindsight. kind of like Weird Al Yankovic who gets so much love right now for some reason, sure he was a icon of the 80's but damn dude was corny as hell...eat it was popular i guess

i mean i agree its preference but you guys praising these guys like they're better than the Chris Rocks or Eddie Murphy's, i'll never get or agree with...i truly believe their names and myths have grown over time to be greater than they were. which is kind of the way things always seem to be with nostalgia...i mean if you like really clean humor i guess Cosby is the best thru default. i'll give you that.


i agree about MJ tho. he invented that, they all copied...i just hate that style of dance. and yeah i do think MJ was a icon of the 80's along with Michael Jordan and Mike Tyson...

[L.Kizzle]

That's insane & I know they are all childless.

I thought the Nicolas Brothers had gone all out on Stormy Weather.

Had the Berry or Nicolas Brothers been White........ Good lord.

Good stuff . When I get off I will try to search for some more Berry Brothers clips.

I guess the Nicolas brothers are more famous because they got that big break in a classic such as Stormy Weather.

I think Nicholas Bros were better all around. Plus they also used to sing. The Berry's did too, but it wasn't all together like the Nicholas Brothers. But the Berry were most def more athletic as you can tell from that clip. Nicholas Bros also had more backing, one was married to Dorthy Dandridge and their skin was a little lighter and hair a littler straighter. All that matters in the late 30s and early 40s.

[L.Kizzle]

Pryor is the king of comedy. I love Rock and Murphy, but half of their material is straight from Pryor. Richard was one of the first comics (if not the first, maybe Lenny Bruce) to bare his soul to an audience. No other comics were talking about their drug habits or the crimes they had committed, or telling the world that his mother was a whore and slept with many men and as a child would get beat by his grandma or aunt. Pryor was the truth.

There are many routines from the top comics who were really the first wave of Richard Pryor disciples (or clones) that took of in the 80s like the mentioned Murphy, Rock, Lawrence and also Damon Wayans, Robin Harris, Eddie Griffin, Steve Harvey, DL Hughley ect.

There is a reason why everyone calls Richard the King. Every comic today will tell you.

Check out others from his era or slightly earlier that set the stage for Richard. Guys like Redd Foxx, Slappy White, Dick Gregory, Rudy Ray Moore and the duo of Skillet & Leroy. Get some old school party records. I'll make everyone you think is great today sound like Sinbad (not a jab at Sinbad, he's great actually.)


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As for Jackson, all the the people you see today (your Ushers, Chris Browns, Timberlake's ect) are more closely associated with Janet Jackson (at least her live performances) than Michael.

Mike is more in the vein of his forefathers of James Brown, Joe Tex, Jackie Wilson, David Ruffin, ect. If you look at MJ's performances, he didn't really have tons on dancers on stage until the mid-90s. His first solo tour Bad which took off in late 87, he would sometimes have 5 singers who doubled as back up dancers also. This was not for every song just the J5 medleys and a few others with backing vocals. The five were to bring back memories of his 5 brothers he'd been performing with since 1964. Same with the Dangerous Tour in 92. It was the HIStory tour in 96 which he started to get a lot of back up dancers. It was in his videos where he had tons of dancers, and this is where these current artist copy from and bring that to the stage.

[Godzuki]

Pryor is the king of comedy. I love Rock and Murphy, but half of their material is straight from Pryor. Richard was one of the first comics (if not the first, maybe Lenny Bruce) to bare his soul to an audience. No other comics were talking about their drug habits or the crimes they had committed, or telling the world that his mother was a whore and slept with many men and as a child would get beat by his grandma or aunt. Pryor was the truth.

There are many routines from the top comics who were really the first wave of Richard Pryor disciples (or clones) that took of in the 80s like the mentioned Murphy, Rock, Lawrence and also Damon Wayans, Robin Harris, Eddie Griffin, Steve Harvey, DL Hughley ect.

There is a reason why everyone calls Richard the King. Every comic today will tell you.

Check out others from his era or slightly earlier that set the stage for Richard. Guys like Redd Foxx, Slappy White, Dick Gregory, Rudy Ray Moore and the duo of Skillet & Leroy. Get some old school party records. I'll make everyone you think is great today sound like Sinbad (not a jab at Sinbad, he's great actually.)


------


As for Jackson, all the the people you see today (your Ushers, Chris Browns, Timberlake's ect) are more closely associated with Janet Jackson (at least her live performances) than Michael.

Mike is more in the vein of his forefathers of James Brown, Joe Tex, Jackie Wilson, David Ruffin, ect. If you look at MJ's performances, he didn't really have tons on dancers on stage until the mid-90s. His first solo tour Bad which took off in late 87, he would sometimes have 5 singers who doubled as back up dancers also. This was not for every song just the J5 medleys and a few others with backing vocals. The five were to bring back memories of his 5 brothers he'd been performing with since 1964. Same with the Dangerous Tour in 92. It was the HIStory tour in 96 which he started to get a lot of back up dancers. It was in his videos where he had tons of dancers, and this is where these current artist copy from and bring that to the stage.

thing is you can link clips of Pryor and Cosby here, next to clips of Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock, and i'd be willing to bet almost everyone will be going with Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock. Not saying some might prefer Prior especially if they're old, but i'd swear the actual funny isn't even close. Even delivery is so different between those guys and Murphy/Rock where they took it to another level of pitch delivery build up imo.

again Pryor was almost mumbling sometimes, insecure like to me...i never thought he was that funny. i actually thought his movies were better than his standup back then like Stir Crazy was big...Cosby did a lot of corny stuff imo. He'd do that drawn out voice imitations YOOOOOOOOOOOOOUuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....or his pee wee herman old man dancce and its just not funny to me at least. i guess we got differnt humor.

to say Murphy and Rock took from them is absurd. Eddie Murphy Raw with the Ice Cream, JuJu fruits, etc, etc. i can't even remember it all was taking stand up to another level at that time. Then Chris Rock with the OJ, and just almost everything he did was fukkin hilarious...i get its opinion so i won't bother arguing it that much. But i've heard most of it, especially since this dude i knew used to make me listen to Cosby when i went to his house and i hated it. i'm not a big fan of clean humor generally speaking tho.

I 100% disagree about the Janet Jackson influence to artists today....Timberlake, Usher, etc. copied MJ's moves to a Tee. the hip thrusts, knee bend to the beats, etc. Janet never did that stuff....thats ALL MJ. they copied everything MJ did exactly how he did it. Almost every move is MJ....Janet did like rhythm nation choreo and stuff which was more regular than MJ's moves.

James Brown didn't do MJ, or rather vice versa. JB was great but he did crazy shit like jump in the air landing splits and spins stuff from what i remember. MJ was completely unique with his stuff imo.

Sinbad used to come on Stern, he's actually really funny. it was hilarious when he'd make fun of Jackie's knick knacks and Stern would be dying, same with me in the car

[L.Kizzle]

Pryor is Wilt as he's the most prolific, set many records, goat by most OGs and is dead.
Cosby is Russell the most successful and most gray hair.
Murphy is Magic as he got in trouble in the 80s too.
Rock is Jordan. He's not really the best but started off losing and became a winner. And now is considered by most as the goat stand up comic or at least in the modern era.

[L.Kizzle]

I could post clips of DL Hughley that would have this board dieing with laughter, doesn't mean he's better than Pryor (or Rock, Murphy for that matter.)


It's not absurd where do you think the BBQ bit from Delirious comes from? The Half bit, ect? Pryor was doing these stories on his albums and shows 15 years earlier. Murphy is more blatant with his copying than Rock though. Rock is a much better comic than Murphy though he does take bits here and there. Damon Wayans said it best when presenting Richard Pryor with the Mark Twain Humor Award, the first of it's type at the Kennedy Center Honors in 1998. "If you haven't taken from Richard Pryor, than you're probably not that funny."


Janet's influence from the stage, I'm talking about her choreographed moves with many dancers. That was her first to take from video to stage. Mike had it on video first but didn't take to stage until much later. The moves and gyrations, of course are Mike all the way.


As for Brown and Mike. Check out the Jackson 5 Motown audition tape. They were signed because a 9 year old Mike did a perfect James Brown imitation of the son "I Got The Feelin" backed by his brothers. He also did Joe Tex's "Skinny Legs and All" on early J5 shows.

[Godzuki]

I could post clips of DL Hughley that would have this board dieing with laughter, doesn't mean he's better than Pryor (or Rock, Murphy for that matter.)


It's not absurd where do you think the BBQ bit from Delirious comes from? The Half bit, ect? Pryor was doing these stories on his albums and shows 15 years earlier. Murphy is more blatant with his copying than Rock though. Rock is a much better comic than Murphy though he does take bits here and there. Damon Wayans said it best when presenting Richard Pryor with the Mark Twain Humor Award, the first of it's type at the Kennedy Center Honors in 1998. "If you haven't taken from Richard Pryor, than you're probably not that funny."


Janet's influence from the stage, I'm talking about her choreographed moves with many dancers. That was her first to take from video to stage. Mike had it on video first but didn't take to stage until much later. The moves and gyrations, of course are Mike all the way.


As for Brown and Mike. Check out the Jackson 5 Motown audition tape. They were signed because a 9 year old Mike did a perfect James Brown imitation of the son "I Got The Feelin" backed by his brothers. He also did Joe Tex's "Skinny Legs and All" on early J5 shows.

to me its about the funny tho, and delivery. those are the 2 and only 2 things that matter to me, well creativity is maybe a distant 3rd in terms of originality but if you can make me laugh and delivery is on point then you're a great stand up comedian to me. nobody is taking 100% from somebody else, that shit doesn't fly in the comedy world, and when it happens they get a ton of shit. it used to come up on Howard Stern with people taking other peoples jokes and stuff...comedians take that real personally.

again Pryor's delivery wasn't so good and i don't even think his material was that good. he cursed a lot but a lot of times i remember him not being that funny more than crude. Cosby really annoyed me but that was partly due to a friend being so into him, just is humor was real family, and i'm not into that so much.

to me Eddie Murphy was GOAT until he turned gay. Chris Rock came along and reinvented the game. i thought Martin Lawrence stand up was alright but not on their level at all....i loved Martin for his TV show and dances. thats where i'm at with stand up...granted i don't follow much/any recent comics.

[32jazz]

As for Jackson, all the the people you see today (your Ushers, Chris Browns, Timberlake's ect) are more closely associated with Janet Jackson (at least her live performances) than Michael.

Mike is more in the vein of his forefathers of James Brown, Joe Tex, Jackie Wilson, David Ruffin, ect. If you look at MJ's performances, he didn't really have tons on dancers on stage until the mid-90s. His first solo tour Bad which took off in late 87, he would sometimes have 5 singers who doubled as back up dancers also. This was not for every song just the J5 medleys and a few others with backing vocals. The five were to bring back memories of his 5 brothers he'd been performing with since 1964. Same with the Dangerous Tour in 92. It was the HIStory tour in 96 which he started to get a lot of back up dancers. It was in his videos where he had tons of dancers, and this is where these current artist copy from and bring that to the stage.

Nothing to add to the brilliance of Pryor. Only his movies I felt were inferior overall , but stand up is the blue print. Leroy & Skillet should have been featured more on Sandford & Son instead of Grady(maybe even Bubba).



Michael rarely used those dancers extensively onstage ,but his Videos influenced these young people more than his stage presence /dancing which they cannot match. I think Janet & others can't do a interview without back up dancers.

Live he only really used the dancers on his choreographed VIDEO showpieces like Smooth Criminal, Beat It, Thriller , etc...plus the J5 /Jackson's songs because he thought his fans wanted to see it.

But the vast majority of his live performances are without the choreographed videos. It is just Michael /microphone going old school dancing & stalking the stage & engaging the audience.

Unfortunately the younger Artists like his sister & others don't have the skills /presence & have lifted Michaels videos & used it as a template for their live performances. And you are right Michael wrongly gets the 'blame' for spawning inferior artists who believe 'video Michael' is what Michael was.



He was about 40 plus during History with Lupus, inflamed lungs & arthrithis so I can understand him leaning more on dancers & lip syncing a bit.

Although I am critical of the late career lipsyncing his "Stranger in Moscow" performance on the HIStory tour has to be the greatest performance of a ballad I have ever seen.

[L.Kizzle]

i would love to see some of y'all top comedian lists. i really don't know how you don't put Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock ahead of these old school dudes...i swear both Pryor and Cosby were extremely overrated.

talking about stand up only tho.

Ranked on greatness, importance, funniness, influential.

1 Richard Pryor
2 Chris Rock
3 Bill Cosby
4 Eddie Murphy
5 Redd Foxx
6 Damon Wayans
7 Martin Lawrence
8 Dick Gregory
9 Dave Chappelle
10 Flip Wilson
11 Moms Mabley
12 Mr. Paul Mooney
13 Eddie Griffin
14 DL Hughley
15 Pigmeat Markham
16 Sinbad
17 Nipsey Russell
18 Timmie Rogers
19 Slappy White
20 Robin Harris
21 Whoopi Goldberg
22 Bernie Mac
23 Rudy Ray Moore
24 Godfrey Cambridge
25 David Alan Grier