Why is Mandela celebrated?

[NumberSix]

People always support the side that won.

[ThePhantomCreep]

People always support the side that won.

Is that why Stalin was such a beloved hero at the time of his death?

[GimmeThat]

Mandela undoubtedly fought for his people and has impressive accomplishments.

But to bury the unsavory parts of the story is rather disgraceful. He was not an untouchable saint. There are those who were positively affected by him, and those who were affected in the worst possible way. In struggles like that, it isn't uncommon at all. And using the mentality of "Well the ends justify the means when we do it but not for anybody else" doesn't sit well with me.

Is he Satan incarnate? Of course not. But the hollywood narrative of 100% good guys vs evil bastards just isn't the case in reality. Unfortunately, innocent people get caught up in these struggles just like the combatants themselves.

And as for your last inquiry, that is an equally complex issue.

I just don't know if you put down every evil deed he's ever done into a book. and people would even be interested in reading it.

[StephHamann]

Is that why Stalin was such a beloved hero at the time of his death?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/...4BR17620081228

[ThePhantomCreep]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/...4BR17620081228

Worldwide though? I reject the idea that Mandela is a beloved icon simply because his "side won". Stalin's side won and he's one of the most reviled despots in world history.

[StephHamann]

Worldwide though? I reject the idea that Mandela is a beloved icon simply because his "side won". Stalin's side won and he's one of the most reviled despots in world history.

Stalin was on the "evil side" the communist block. They lost ultimately 1991.

[sweggeh]

well, if they're outraged by mandela, then they're also likely outraged by a butterfly that flew across their path and caused them to trip and spill the pitcher of water they were carrying.


isn't life terribly harsh and full of random motherf--kers out to get you, mister based tom?

How is it over the top to be outraged at the level of respect and love given to a man that killed your mother, you wife, your children, and your friends? You think they would be wrong to hate him? Is that really what you are saying?

[sweggeh]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It's like saying "Martin Luther King Jr was an extremist because he was connected with Malcolm X, who was willing to go to any measures to get rid of segregation"

Mandela was initially part of the group that went to such extreme measures you highlighted, but Mandela wasn't the one ordering deaths of innocent people. Mandela and the group he was affiliated with both wanted the same ends and initially shared similar means to that end. Mandela went to jail and he came out to reach the end he fought for, but with different means.

They were both on same side from the perspective that they wanted to end apartheid. To say that Mandela was responsible for those extreme measures shows either a) you have no idea what you're talking about or b) you're trolling.

If it's a, do learn the entire history. If it's b, then you deserve your red bars.

Your the one who is an absolute idiot. He wasnt "associated" with the ANC, he was the one giving the orders to blow up the buildings. He had a lot of blood on his hands. People act like he is a saint, but he was no different than any leader who kills innocents to get what he wants. Him and his followers killed MANY people. Get educated before you start calling someone else stupid.

[GimmeThat]

Your the one who is an absolute idiot. He wasnt "associated" with the ANC, he was the one giving the orders to blow up the buildings. He had a lot of blood on his hands. People act like he is a saint, but he was no different than any leader who kills innocents to get what he wants. Him and his followers killed MANY people. Get educated before you start calling someone else stupid.

I completely agree.

I was actually just wondering today, what if we just put away all the leaders because they had kill some people, and leave this whole civilization in the state like post war Iraq.


guns don't kill people. good people kill bad people, and bad people kill good people.

I guess some innocent people do get killed. but those who ends up being proved guilty.

oh boy.

[GimmeThat]

How is it over the top to be outraged at the level of respect and love given to a man that killed your mother, you wife, your children, and your friends? You think they would be wrong to hate him? Is that really what you are saying?

I think it's wrong to hate someone because death happens, without looking into why it happens.

as to whether or not that means a God exist.


everyone's got an opinion.

[BoutPractice]

Because in the end he forgave. It's like the parable of the prodigal son... the world that celebrates Mandela is deeply influenced by Christian ethics, in which "repenting" weighs more than the sins you're repenting from. (Rightly so I would say... although it seems counterintuitive at first, it all makes sense when considered in totality)

His release could've led to a bloodbath. Instead he became the ultimate pacifier, doing the exact opposite of what most people would have done in his position. In doing that he saved many people's lives, many more than you can argue he "took".

Answering violence with violence is human. It's the norm, it's just the way we're wired as creatures. Answering violence with forgiveness is saintly. Mandela did both, which makes him a much more iconic figure. Someone who was born a saint will be less appealing than someone who was somewhat like most of us, but overcame natural instincts and ascended to a higher level. The fact that someone like Mandela existed deprives us of our usual excuses for failing to do the right thing.

[sweggeh]

Because in the end he forgave. It's like the parable of the prodigal son... the world that celebrates Mandela is deeply influenced by Christian ethics, in which "repenting" weighs more than the sins you're repenting from. (Rightly so I would say... although it seems counterintuitive at first, it all makes sense when considered in totality)

His release could've led to a bloodbath. Instead he became the ultimate pacifier, doing the exact opposite of what most people would have done in his position. In doing that he saved many people's lives, many more than you can argue he "took".

Answering violence with violence is human. It's the norm, it's just the way we're wired as creatures. Answering violence with forgiveness is saintly. Mandela did both, which makes him a much more iconic figure. Someone who was born a saint will be less appealing than someone who was somewhat like most of us, but overcame natural instincts and ascended to a higher level. The fact that someone like Mandela existed deprives us of our usual excuses for failing to do the right thing.

Wow... he forgave? Since when does a murderer have the right to forgive his victim? He was fighting for a political issue, and he did that by killing innocent people who had no say over the politics side of things. How can that be forgiven?

[GimmeThat]

Wow... he forgave? Since when does a murderer have the right to forgive his victim? He was fighting for a political issue, and he did that by killing innocent people who had no say over the politics side of things. How can that be forgiven?

don't forgive him.

the politicians will deal with him.

[NumberSix]

What exactly did Mandela achieve? South Africa today is worse than ever.

[sweggeh]

What exactly did Mandela achieve? South Africa today is worse than ever.

He achieved a cult status for himself, not much else.