Does acquiring Love give the Cavs the edge of a healthy Bulls?

[poido123]

Honestly any team with Lebron can beat the Bulls.

Any team with/without Lebron can beat the magic.

[Jameerthefear]

Any team with/without Lebron can beat the magic.

Why are you bringing up the Magic in a thread about the Bulls and Cavs? Are you upset?

[DMAVS41]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.

I agree with almost all of this post, but the Heat learned to play together in like 17 games. They were absolutely great from that 9-8 record up through the first 40 minutes of game 2 in the finals.

It wasn't chemistry or anything like that...it was a combination of Dirk/Terry punching them right in the mouth in crunch time...and Lebron choking.

You don't go 61-19 over an 80 game span...including 12-3 in the playoffs while having a top 3 offense and top 5 defense...and then say it was "chemistry" that caused the loss.


As for the Cavs with Love vs the Bulls. It would be a great series...and most likely the Cavs would have the two best players. And way more often than not...that is what wins.

[poido123]

Why are you bringing up the Magic in a thread about the Bulls and Cavs? Are you upset?

Clearly mad

Too E...

[Jameerthefear]

Clearly mad

Too E...

Yeah bro. You got me.

[Milbuck]

He hasn't proven exactly what I said.

Over the last 3 years in the playoffs...he's been sub 50% TS in each of them.

I don't think that can be good enough.

Really? This is a controversial opinion? That a shoot first, shoot a lot, pointguard shooting sub 50% TS probably won't be good enough to win the title?

Really? That is what it's come to...we have to pretend like that isn't a serious issue for a guy that has averaged 24 shots a game in the playoffs over that time?

If he plays differently, then we'll see.

But you guys ask a question...you get an honest answer. Rose has not proven he can shoot above 50% TS in the playoffs because he's never done it outside of his rookie year for 7 games...and even then 52.7% TS likely won't get it done either.

You just ignored every bit of context I provided and just re-stated that one little statistic. The point is, Rose has played damn well in close to every series he's ever been in aside from the Miami series...as the sole offensive creator for his team, which is something you don't seem to care about. It's hard to reach Shaq-level efficiency when you're the only player on your team who can handle the ball, score, and make plays for others consistently. He had no business leading the Bulls to push 2009 Boston to 7 games, yet he did. He was great against Lebron's Cavs as a 2nd year player. No one expected him to break through the way he did in 2011 and rape his first and second round opponents the way he did, yet he did.

You keep pointing to one little statistic but ignoring essentially everything around it. Was KG's 04 playoff run mediocre because he shot 51% TS as a big man?

[poido123]

Yeah bro. You got me.

Still mad, I would be too if I made a bet on the magic making 4th seed or higher.

[poido123]

I agree with almost all of this post, but the Heat learned to play together in like 17 games. They were absolutely great from that 9-8 record up through the first 40 minutes of game 2 in the finals.

It wasn't chemistry or anything like that...it was a combination of Dirk/Terry punching them right in the mouth in crunch time...and Lebron choking.

You don't go 61-19 over an 80 game span...including 12-3 in the playoffs while having a top 3 offense and top 5 defense...and then say it was "chemistry" that caused the loss.


As for the Cavs with Love vs the Bulls. It would be a great series...and most likely the Cavs would have the two best players. And way more often than not...that is what wins.

The cavs core has little to no playoff experience(lebron will have to play another long playoff series), a rookie coach, players thrown together that don't quite fit each others style, i still think we have the slight edge.

[ballinhun8]

You just ignored every bit of context I provided and just re-stated that one little statistic. The point is, Rose has played damn well in close to every series he's ever been in aside from the Miami series...as the sole offensive creator for his team, which is something you don't seem to care about. It's hard to reach Shaq-level efficiency when you're the only player on your team who can handle the ball, score, and make plays for others consistently. He had no business leading the Bulls to push 2009 Boston to 7 games, yet he did. He was great against Lebron's Cavs as a 2nd year player. No one expected him to break through the way he did in 2011 and rape his first and second round opponents the way he did, yet he did.


You keep pointing to one little statistic but ignoring essentially everything around it. Was KG's 04 playoff run mediocre because he shot 51% TS as a big man?

I guess this is why I am a Kobe fan. To me, I dont care for efficiency or "TS" or crap like PER. I watch enough to know who is effective

[Jameerthefear]

Still mad, I would be too if I made a bet on the magic making 4th seed or higher.

I'm FURIOUS.

[RedBlackAttack]

No. Chicago is still better. The Cavs best 3 players would>Chicago's best 3 but the Bulls would have far greater depth. Moreover, the Bulls would have continuity in terms of coaching and the team's system along with returning many of the same players. The Cavs have a coach with zero NBA experience and, under this scenario, the Cavs' two best players would be new additions to the team. Rose, Noah, Butler, Gibson are longtime incumbents. Even though Rose has not seen much action, Rose has been part of the culture and system for years and people like Noah have played with him for a while. Irving will have to learn Love and LeBron. Remember, one reason the 11' Heat underachieved is it took them a year to learn to play together optimally.

The Spurs have demonstrated the importance of good coaching, a good system, depth and continuity. Chicago has all these things in spades; Cleveland does not.

Thing is, we still don't know the extent of the Cavs' depth come opening night or even following the trade deadline. It is really impossible to do a comprehensive comparison at this stage because the Cavaliers are in such flux at the moment.

The OP's lineup assumes that a Love deal will include either Brewer or KMart coming with him, but we don't know if either or both or someone completely unknown will be coming as an addition to the move.

Also, it has been widely reported in Cavs circles that they're working on some other move in addition to this Love deal, likely for a center. Now, who that center will be and how big of a factor this "other" move could be? Again, we don't know, so speculation is pointless.

Right now, here's what I feel comfortable penciling in on the Cavs' roster and there will be additions...


PG - Kyrie Irving / Matthew Dellavadova
SG - Dion Waiters / Mike Miller
SF - LeBron James / Joe Harris
PF - Kevin Love / Tristan Thompson
C - Anderson Varejao / Brendan Haywood


We're still waiting on word from Ray Allen. We still really have no idea who is going to be moving in addition to Love, if anyone. If we end up just getting Love in return for Wiggins and filler, I'd assume Bennett will be staying. If Bennett is a part of the deal, I would expect something of value coming back with Love.

And then there is this other mystery move to consider. Keep in mind that, even after the Love trade, the Cavs will likely have substantial maneuverability. I don't see them getting any more than one pick, if that, and it will likely be our worst (Cavs pick in 2018 would be my guess).

That still leaves both the Heat and Grizz first-rounders to use in other deals. Then, there's Tristan Thompson, who could be used with those two picks to go after a more proven veteran bigman.


All things considered, I think this lineup is off to a pretty good start. If we can add a little depth to the center position and as long as he can avoid injury (more likely now that he won't have to carry as much of the load), Varejao is a fine starting center on a team built like this one.

He's an elite rebounder, versatile defender, excellent passer and intangibles guy who doesn't need the ball in his hands or plays run for him to have a big impact. Essentially the perfect compliment to a team chalk full of scorers and playmakers.


Yeah, if healthy, I think this lineup -- assuming reinforcements are brought in for depth -- is better than a healthy Chicago. What it may come down to is how well guys like Kyrie, Dion and KLove buy-in to Blatt's defensive philosophies. They've all been criticized at one time or another for their defensive acumen, but none of the three have ever been in a position of actually contending not to mention playing alongside a guy like LeBron who will presumably demand their best effort.

I was on record as wanting the Cavs to do everything in their power to get Love without having to give up Wiggins, but that was because of my longterm infatuation with this roster. In the short-term? A Kyrie-Dion-James-Love-Varejao starting five has the potential to be f#cking amazing, especially with sharp-shooters filling up the bench (Miller, Allen).


I think some people are forgetting just how dynamic a player Kevin Love can be... and how -- on paper -- perfectly he looks alongside James-Kyrie-Dion.


Kevin Love Full Highlights 2013.12.13 at Spurs - 42 Pts, 14 Rebs, 8-9 From Three

[Cocaine80s]

Kevin Love and Kyrie will fit with Lebron way better than with Bosh and Wade.


Love wont even have to change his game much, i think Kyrie will have to adjust though

[RedBlackAttack]

Kevin Love and Kyrie will fit with Lebron way better than with Bosh and Wade.


Love wont even have to change his game much, i think Kyrie will have to adjust though

...and LeBron should and will likely adapt his game to playing alongside Kyrie. Fact of the matter is, he's never played with any point guard even in the same league as Kyrie Irving, who will likely continue getting better and better. Kyrie will not be made into just a spot-up shooter for James to outlet the ball to after pounding and driving. In fact, I think Kyrie is going to be doing much of the setting up and LeBron will be finishing much more than he has the last four years.

Blatt's offensive philosophy also revolves around quick, precise cuts and passes with lots of variations on the pick-and-roll/pops. It is much more like what we saw out of the Spurs than what the Heat did, which was to rely on their great playmakers to set-up their outside shooting.

I foresee a ton of pick-and-rolls between these three guys and Dion as well, who is a gifted ball-handler and passer. They're going to have a ton of potential to run the kinds of offensive sets that no other team in the league can duplicate, just based off of the talent and how the pieces fit.

Also remember that Kevin Love is maybe the best in the league at rebounding and outletting to immediately start fastbreaks... while LeBron and Kyrie are two of the best transition finishers in the NBA.

Could be amazing to watch.

[Cocaine80s]

...and LeBron should and will likely adapt his game to playing alongside Kyrie. Fact of the matter is, he's never played with any point guard even in the same league as Kyrie Irving, who will likely continue getting better and better. Kyrie will not be made into just a spot-up shooter for James to outlet the ball to after pounding and driving. In fact, I think Kyrie is going to be doing much of the setting up and LeBron will be finishing much more than he has the last four years.

Blatt's offensive philosophy also revolves around quick, precise cuts and passes with lots of variations on the pick-and-roll/pops. It is much more like what we saw out of the Spurs than what the Heat did, which was to rely on their great playmakers to set-up their outside shooting.

I foresee a ton of pick-and-rolls between these three guys and Dion as well, who is a gifted ball-handler and passer. They're going to have a ton of potential to run the kinds of offensive sets that no other team in the league can duplicate, just based off of the talent and how the pieces fit.

Also remember that Kevin Love is maybe the best in the league at rebounding and outletting to immediately start fastbreaks... while LeBron and Kyrie are two of the best transition finishers in the NBA.

Could be amazing to watch.

i still dont understand why people keep thinking the Cavs wont be deadly if they get Love.

[fpliii]

Sorta OT - What did you guys make of Blatt's offensive schemes from watching summer league? From what I've heard/read, he like to run the Princeton Offense, modified for the modern usage of the 3.