If you've seen Team USA players for the first time

[Oly BC]

All this tournament really demonstrates is that coaching in other parts of the world needs to improve. The main reason coaches over there do not run more superstar styled offenses is because their simply is a lack of transcendent superstars. In the rare case they have one they dont know how to use them properly.

[fandarko]

I don't know man. Marc is better, Ibaka is better, Rodriguez is muuuch better...




But they're being outplayed by a few guards in the World Cup, how does that compute?



That's not the case. Rodriguez has become twice the player he was in the NBA whilst playing for Real Madrid, it's his own merit mind, as he learned to shoot. The NBA is a really hard league to get into, if you come from a different country and you don't land in a fitting franchise, it's going to be much harder for you than a kid who grew up in US and went through the NCCA.



That's again selective. Navarro could have easily been Tony Parker (in a totally different playstyle, mind).

I'd say Ibaka doesn't play better, Pau is certainly not better, his brother is, I give you that. All the others are diminished. Navarro is completely washed up, Rudy is not better, Calderon is worse, Rubio non-existent, Reyes is on the brink of retirement. Not a single classic wing (I consider Rudy to be more of a shooting guard), no stretch big (Garbajosa is noticeably absent)... The only new factor is Sergio, but in my opionion he can't make up for what Navarro, Rudy and Pau brought to the table at their respective peaks...

[hawksdogsbraves]

Sorry, but under FIBA rules, all the major national teams on this tournament plus a few absent are NBA playoff teams and contenders.

This Team USA is stronger than any NBA team, just look at the names.

You mean you honestly believe that under Fiba rules, the Spurs beat Spain in best of seven series? No chance in hell.

Put Turkey against, say, OKC, do you really believe they wouldn't play even?

C-mon.

If NBA teams practiced and trained under FIBA rules then yes, they would crush Turkey and every other international team not named Spain. Spain would probably be a playoff team in the East, they have a good front court.


The transition in rules is a big deal for the US players, (and others not used to playing under them). I absolutely believe that guys like Davis, Harden, and Curry would be the best players in Europe if they played there and devoted themselves to that style of play. They're simply that good.

If Davis is playing in Europe, he'd be the best player on the court every single night. Hands down. That would translate to him putting up big numbers once he got used to a different style of play than he's been playing his whole entire life.

[Rooster]

If NBA teams practiced and trained under FIBA rules then yes, they would crush Turkey and every other international team not named Spain. Spain would probably be a playoff team in the East, they have a good front court.


The transition in rules is a big deal for the US players, (and others not used to playing under them). I absolutely believe that guys like Davis, Harden, and Curry would be the best players in Europe if they played there and devoted themselves to that style of play. They're simply that good.

If Davis is playing in Europe, he'd be the best player on the court every single night. Hands down. That would translate to him putting up big numbers once he got used to a different style of play than he's been playing his whole entire life.

This is a no brainer.

There are more Americans named

Euroleague MVPS
Euroleague Final Four MVPs
All Euroleague First and Second Teams
35 Euroleague Greatest Player

Than any nations in Europe.

[GimmeThat]

5 star post *****

as far as crisis in talent development goes

your best player should be used as your baseline in terms of measurement in achievement/accomplishment/work ethics etc.


Bob Knight was not necessarily spot on with the power of negative thinking

but it is the power of utilizing the best to cover the worst aspect, and in term turns those that are in a better position, lifted into even better positions.


digging deep.

[fandarko]

If NBA teams practiced and trained under FIBA rules then yes, they would crush Turkey and every other international team not named Spain. Spain would probably be a playoff team in the East, they have a good front court.


The transition in rules is a big deal for the US players, (and others not used to playing under them). I absolutely believe that guys like Davis, Harden, and Curry would be the best players in Europe if they played there and devoted themselves to that style of play. They're simply that good.

If Davis is playing in Europe, he'd be the best player on the court every single night. Hands down. That would translate to him putting up big numbers once he got used to a different style of play than he's been playing his whole entire life.

I agree NBA players would be better if training under FIBA rules, but it's not only about the rules. It's a whole different approach, far more team oriented ball sharing. It's difficult to dominate a game where you, as the superstar, get to play 25-30 minutes at most and when you have to share the ball.

Harden might be a phenomenal scorer, but nobody in Europe is letting him have the touches and freedom he has in the NBA. While he would score 20, he wouldn't be nowhere near dominant. The same goes for Rose or Westbrook. Or Curry. No chance in hell you get to dominate in Europe at 6-3 with the frail frame that Curry has, since they wouldn't let him shoot that much.

Davis would be great, but wouldn't be transcendental like Kobe, Durant, Dirk or even Melo, "give me the ball and I'll score in any circumstances". Lebron belongs there too probably, but he would be less effective in offense.

Again, I repeat that I prefer NBA game because it's guard oriented and the playoffs are amazing. Granted, the players are better, but that's the best league in the world. But certain skills and qualities don't translate equally in European basketball.

[Rooster]

Curry's actually shooting quite a lot, but it's not falling (too early in the season I guess, so it's probably better for him this way).

But as you say, it's not his role. This is exactly how it would look like in Euroleague/Eurocup setting. His role, as that of many of the NBA superstar point guards, would be greatly diminished. Since defense is much tougher for guards (for everyone for that matter) and there is much less space to operate, play for guards is stripped down to key skills - shooting, defense and passing. The latter is also valued differently than in the NBA, as only clean passes to scoring players are counted as assists (if the player puts in down on the floor and makes a two-step lay-in the pass is often not counted as an assist).

As a guard, no matter how good you are, you play 25 minutes max. And that playing time involves much more sharing the ball, less touches and getting benched a couple of times, not because you are bad, but because the other guy gets to play too. That is not very conducive to creating alpha scoring mentality. You get to be a team player or you are out.

I personally prefer a mixed bland of basketball, something like a cross between the NBA playoffs and the Euroleague. The latter is too strict and physical to my taste, since it stopped being a guards' game a long time ago, with the emergence of stretch bigs and 6-9 or 6-10 shooting wings all over the place.

You have a point. Look at Tony Parker and Dragic, when they have more freedom, they really showed up. But most Euros are just soft and too unathletic to be a superstar in NBA.

[fandarko]

You have a point. Look at Tony Parker and Dragic, when they have more freedom, they really showed up. But most Euros are just soft and too unathletic to be a superstar in NBA.

These too are not the best example, they did have solid freedom in Europe but they left early.

Dragic is pretty athletic IMO. European players are not soft, the game in Europe is more physical than in the NBA due to clogged lanes and tigher operating space.

As caucasian, they are simply less athletic than African American players, that's a fact. They stand no chance against same-skilled but far more athletic black players.

Every once in a while you have a white player popping up with great athleticism (like the soon to be draftee Mario Hezonja from Croatia or Mikhayliuk from Ukraine), but they are the exception to the rule.

But there is no chance a European player is athletic or physically gifted as LBJ, Westbrook or Durant.

[HurricaneKid]

It has been a huge frustration to me that the games are just so different. I would be in full support of making them more and more similar. I think allowing the defense to set in the lane cuts off way too much and would want FIBA to go to the 3 second or defend a player. The NBA can cave on every thing else.

That way we can have a world game and Champions can compete around the globe.

[GimmeThat]

I agree NBA players would be better if training under FIBA rules, but it's not only about the rules. It's a whole different approach, far more team oriented ball sharing. It's difficult to dominate a game where you, as the superstar, get to play 25-30 minutes at most and when you have to share the ball.

Harden might be a phenomenal scorer, but nobody in Europe is letting him have the touches and freedom he has in the NBA. While he would score 20, he wouldn't be nowhere near dominant. The same goes for Rose or Westbrook. Or Curry. No chance in hell you get to dominate in Europe at 6-3 with the frail frame that Curry has, since they wouldn't let him shoot that much.

Davis would be great, but wouldn't be transcendental like Kobe, Durant, Dirk or even Melo, "give me the ball and I'll score in any circumstances". Lebron belongs there too probably, but he would be less effective in offense.

Again, I repeat that I prefer NBA game because it's guard oriented and the playoffs are amazing. Granted, the players are better, but that's the best league in the world. But certain skills and qualities don't translate equally in European basketball.

I thought Darth Maul did okay in China

I mean, Stephon Marbury.

[Rooster]

These too are not the best example, they did have solid freedom in Europe but they left early.

Dragic is pretty athletic IMO. European players are not soft, the game in Europe is more physical than in the NBA due to clogged lanes and tigher operating space.

As caucasian, they are simply less athletic than African American players, that's a fact. They stand no chance against same-skilled but far more athletic black players.

Every once in a while you have a white player popping up with great athleticism (like the soon to be draftee Mario Hezonja from Croatia or Mikhayliuk from Ukraine), but they are the exception to the rule.

But there is no chance a European player is athletic or physically gifted as LBJ, Westbrook or Durant.

I think Mikhayliuk will play for Kansas. College is the same for a lot of players. Guys like Michael Jordan did not have that freedom. This reminds of UCLA with Ben Howland. He was very strict with his players and his offense was very structured to the bone but as soon as his players left and went to the NBA, they look better individually.

[SpanishACB]

No chance in hell you get to dominate in Europe at 6-3 with the frail frame that Curry has, since they wouldn't let him shoot that much.

They would, if he shot anything remotely close to what Dragic is putting up this euroleague.

It's not about volume of shots, it's about bad shots. Harden takes 4 bad shots and is automatially alowed to shoot his way back in the game, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

You're right though no one in Europe is going to take 15 shots under 50% and remain on the pitch. The only reason it happens in the NBA is star treatment, which is incredibly important in the survival of the league (player fans don't even exists in europe if compared to the US; people support teams)

[Rooster]

It has been a huge frustration to me that the games are just so different. I would be in full support of making them more and more similar. I think allowing the defense to set in the lane cuts off way too much and would want FIBA to go to the 3 second or defend a player. The NBA can cave on every thing else.

That way we can have a world game and Champions can compete around the globe.

If you want FIBA to get rid of amateur rules and follow NBA rules, Europeans will object to that. It's bad enough that they have slim to none chance of winning, you talking about playing a game of their lives to win under FIBA rules, to getting massacred and ambushed from the get go.

[SpanishACB]

If you want FIBA to get rid of amateur rules and follow NBA rules, Europeans will object to that. It's bad enough that they have slim to none chance of winning, you talking about playing a game of their lives to win under FIBA rules, to getting massacred and ambushed from the get go.

can we stop using the amateur rules term?

If anything, removing rules to make it easier for players to attack and to travel should be called amateurizing the rules.

It's like changing the rules of soccer so you can only pass forward and remove the goals so you only have to run fast. USA would finally stand a chance, but don't call a different approach to sport ruling amateur when it's much more pure to the sport. Only sports in America get their rules tweaked with the only purpose of improving TV ratings, like keeping a 40% volume scorer on the field while he jacks up contested 3s and turns it over.

[Rooster]

They would, if he shot anything remotely close to what Dragic is putting up this euroleague.

It's not about volume of shots, it's about bad shots. Harden takes 4 bad shots and is automatially alowed to shoot his way back in the game, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

You're right though no one in Europe is going to take 15 shots under 50% and remain on the pitch. The only reason it happens in the NBA is star treatment, which is incredibly important in the survival of the league (player fans don't even exists in europe if compared to the US; people support teams)

. There is no star player in Euroleague, only few prospects and role players among hundreds of no hopers.