If you've seen Team USA players for the first time

[hawksdogsbraves]

Do I have to remind you that there are more Americans that are named

Euroleague MVP, Final Four MVP, All Euroleague First and Second team than any nation in Europe. And these guys were scrubs, rejects, never were, has beens and role players at best.

Anthony Parker 5 years of Euroleague
3 Euroleague titles
2 Euroleague MVPs
1 Final four MVPs
Named to Euroleague All Decade team
Named to Euroleague 35 Greatest Players.

Of course numbers will be down if you play less minutes together with players as good as you in a great team. Even Michael Jordan number was down when he played with Dream Team.

This is why it's so absurd that these guys are saying that American players wouldn't be stars in Euroleague. Give Curry or Harden a year or two to get used to the pace and rules over there and they'd be winning Euroleague titles and MVP's every year. They're twice the player Anthony Parker ever was and he tore the league up.

[Akhenaten]

I agree they are better players, but put them in FIBA only environment for year and then we can talk.

You say this but then go on to make affirmative statements speculating what these guys would avg based on 3-4 games in a tournament?

So far through 3 games these are the leading scorers in the tourney;

Pau Gasol 23.7
Scola 22.8
Barea 22.5
Blatche 22
Francisco Garcia 21

What do they all have in common? All are middling NBA players who happen to be by far the best scorers on their respective teams (in this tourney). You cant make any extrapolation about what team usa guys would avg in Euroleague based on their numbers playing next to nothing but other All NBA/all-star talent.

JJ Barea isnt avg 23 points on team usa.

Steph Curry on Spain's team is putting up much more impressive numbers.
Anthony Davis on Argentina is putting up monster stats.

You keep talking about style of play as the reason for diminshed stats but no mention at all about how loaded the US is?

Faried is 13/9/2 in 28 minutes at best, nowhere near a star.

Harden is is 19/4/4 in 27 minutes, a borderline.

Curry is 16/7 tops in 29 minutes, borderline star.

This based on three games vs scrub teams playing limited mins on a LOADED roster?

So what praytell would Blatche avg

And this is not in powerhouses such as Barcelona and Real, doubt they would average that in such systems where 12 guys get to play.

no crap genius, less minutes and more depth equals less stats. So if Barcelona and Real are "powerhouses" then what do you call Team USA

You can prognosticate their stats diminishing on powerhouse teams, but dont or cant see that their diminished production through 3 games in a tourney is BECAUSE THEY ARE ON A POWERHOUSE TEAM?

and then use that lack of production to foretell their lesser numbers on a much INFERIOR (especially when compared to the team USA Roster) Euroleague team?


Curry doesn't even start on this team, what team in Euroleague isn't starting Steph Curry. Get out of here with this corny nonsense man.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

^In all my years of ISH, I don't think I've seen someone post such a great rebuttal. And the kicker? All of it is common sense. Good post

[inclinerator]

every1 is just trying to not step on each other's toes, give each of the players their own team and watch them dominate

[fandarko]

Deron Williams jersey was retired after playing for a month with them. That's is extraordinary and unusual . Ariza looks like a scrub at UCLA while Ed O Bannon was a superstar. But does it matter now. what you did at your peak at the highest level is more important.

His jersey was retired for marketing reasons, but all but one crazy game, he was just average to ok and he played in a third rate European competition (Eurocup). He was a great PG in the NBA, but he surely didn't play like a superstar in Turkey.

[fandarko]

You can prognosticate their stats diminishing on powerhouse teams, but dont or cant see that their diminished production through 3 games in a tourney is BECAUSE THEY ARE ON A POWERHOUSE TEAM?

and then use that lack of production to foretell their lesser numbers on a much INFERIOR (especially when compared to the team USA Roster) Euroleague team?


Curry doesn't even start on this team, what team in Euroleague isn't starting Steph Curry. Get out of here with this corny nonsense man.

I wasn't trying to make a point that Curry or Harden would not be stellar in Euroleague (note, this is the World Cup and not the Euroleague, a clubs competition) on the basis of their current play for Team USA, I could have made that argument without watching them play in Spain.

I said they would be less effective due to different rules, different style of play, different rotations, team oriented play, less space to operate, bigger opponents, no star treatment, etc.

It's simple really. FIBA games are 40 minutes, 8 less than in the NBA.
Euroleague (or Eurocup) teams, if they are any good, have a 10-player rotation, at least. The best players get between 25 and 30 minutes tops. Top scorers average between 13 and 17 points per game.

It's not because they cannot score 25, it's because the game is such that this is not emphasized. Marketing is different, fan base is different.

Hence I tell you that every NBA player not named Durant, Lebron, peak Kobe or Carmelo would have a world of trouble to score more than 20 per game.

It's complicated, put a lesser player in his ideal setting and he will flourish. Put the better player in an uncomfortable situation and he will be no good.

If you ask me, I prefer the NBA version of Curry and Kirye and Harden, they make basketball watchable, not Keith Langford in the Euroleague. And I'm European, for the record.

[SpanishACB]

This is why it's so absurd that these guys are saying that American players wouldn't be stars in Euroleague. Give Curry or Harden a year or two to get used to the pace and rules over there and they'd be winning Euroleague titles and MVP's every year.

So why is Rubio making quite a living out of playing in the NBA (about to sign big money) and Navarro and Rodriguez struggled until they left?

Skills only bring you so far when you come from overseas. The franchise, the coach, the player's mind, I think that plays a bigger role specially when you're starting.

[Rooster]

I wasn't trying to make a point that Curry or Harden would not be stellar in Euroleague (note, this is the World Cup and not the Euroleague, a clubs competition) on the basis of their current play for Team USA, I could have made that argument without watching them play in Spain.

I said they would be less effective due to different rules, different style of play, different rotations, team oriented play, less space to operate, bigger opponents, no star treatment, etc.

It's simple really. FIBA games are 40 minutes, 8 less than in the NBA.
Euroleague (or Eurocup) teams, if they are any good, have a 10-player rotation, at least. The best players get between 25 and 30 minutes tops. Top scorers average between 13 and 17 points per game.

It's not because they cannot score 25, it's because the game is such that this is not emphasized. Marketing is different, fan base is different.

Hence I tell you that every NBA player not named Durant, Lebron, peak Kobe or Carmelo would have a world of trouble to score more than 20 per game.

It's complicated, put a lesser player in his ideal setting and he will flourish. Put the better player in an uncomfortable situation and he will be no good.

If you ask me, I prefer the NBA version of Curry and Kirye and Harden, they make basketball watchable, not Keith Langford in the Euroleague. And I'm European, for the record.

Bunch of baloney. Kleiza and Childress average 17 ppg and 15 ppg when they led Olympiakos to Euroleague Final. These two don't even have the offensive repertoire of Harden and Curry. Weems averaged 13.5 ppg with loaded CSKA and he is not even a scorer.

[Dr.J4ever]

So why is Rubio making quite a living out of playing in the NBA (about to sign big money) and Navarro and Rodriguez struggled until they left?

Skills only bring you so far when you come from overseas. The franchise, the coach, the player's mind, I think that plays a bigger role specially when you're starting.

Rodriguez struggled in the NBA, but not Navarro. I saw quite a bit of his games in Memphis, and he did alright. Had he stayed longer, he could have become a good NBA player.

[Dr.J4ever]

OP takes it a little too far. Harden, and Curry and Davis would be absolute superstars in the EL, but they would do it with lesser numbers.

Even today, there are superstars in the EL. Guys like Vspan are considered superstars, and he does it averaging 15/5 something like that. So I don't know what the whole point of the thread is other than to say that Americans playing in less minutes, playing in team first structures, and with a spread the wealth mentality would average less ppg, less apg, and maybe less rpg.

Pretty common sense.

[Akhenaten]

Bunch of baloney. Kleiza and Childress average 17 ppg and 15 ppg when they led Olympiakos to Euroleague Final. These two don't even have the offensive repertoire of Harden and Curry. Weems averaged 13.5 ppg with loaded CSKA and he is not even a scorer.

[Oly BC]

Bunch of baloney. Kleiza and Childress average 17 ppg and 15 ppg when they led Olympiakos to Euroleague Final. These two don't even have the offensive repertoire of Harden and Curry. Weems averaged 13.5 ppg with loaded CSKA and he is not even a scorer.

Harden and Curry do one thing each.
You mean Kleiza and Childress do half a thing each?


I wouldn't disagree about Childress, god, he was bad.
Kleiza was really good a few years back though.

[ralph_i_el]

I wasn't trying to make a point that Curry or Harden would not be stellar in Euroleague (note, this is the World Cup and not the Euroleague, a clubs competition) on the basis of their current play for Team USA, I could have made that argument without watching them play in Spain.

I said they would be less effective due to different rules, different style of play, different rotations, team oriented play, less space to operate, bigger opponents, no star treatment, etc.

It's simple really. FIBA games are 40 minutes, 8 less than in the NBA.
Euroleague (or Eurocup) teams, if they are any good, have a 10-player rotation, at least. The best players get between 25 and 30 minutes tops. Top scorers average between 13 and 17 points per game.

It's not because they cannot score 25, it's because the game is such that this is not emphasized. Marketing is different, fan base is different.

Hence I tell you that every NBA player not named Durant, Lebron, peak Kobe or Carmelo would have a world of trouble to score more than 20 per game.

It's complicated, put a lesser player in his ideal setting and he will flourish. Put the better player in an uncomfortable situation and he will be no good.

If you ask me, I prefer the NBA version of Curry and Kirye and Harden, they make basketball watchable, not Keith Langford in the Euroleague. And I'm European, for the record.

I think Curry's game translates well to euroleague on O. Great coming off screens with and without the ball. Those short 3's are pretty automatic for him. He has experience playing off the ball. The problem is he'd be constantly pancaked on screens in the euro game playing D.

I think everyone accepts that stars are going to put up less stats in euroleague, because they'll play less minutes and at a slower pace generally.

[Rooster]

Harden and Curry do one thing each.
You mean Kleiza and Childress do half a thing each?


I wouldn't disagree about Childress, god, he was bad.
Kleiza was really good a few years back though.

Josh Childress average 15 points in 52% with 5 rebounds 2 assist and 1 steal while being named All-Euroleague Second Team (2010)
Greek Cup champion (2010)
Greek League Top Scorer (2010)
Greek League Best Five Team (2010)
Greek League All-Star (2010)

Bourosis has been pumping steroids throughout his career and he can't even top that.