ISH Hall of Fame Project: Class of 1990 Voting

[G.O.A.T]

I am the eye test voter of this board haha

Did you want to vote for Gervin? you left him off before I added him to nominees...


@ SexSymbol... you need to elimate two players you voted for...10 max per round

Voting Results so Far

8 ballots cast

(8) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
(8) Julius Erving
(8) Bill Walton
(7) George Gervin
(7) Bob McAdoo
(7) Artis Gilmore
(4) Lenny Wilkens
(4) Bobby Jones
(4) David Thompson
(3) Sergi Belov
(3) George McGinnis
(2) Dan Issel
(2) George McGinnis
(1) Bob Lanier
(1) Dave Bing
(1) Gus Johnson

(sex symbol needs to eliminate two votes still)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[L.Kizzle]

Sex Symbol

[JohnFreeman]

Gervin

[L.Kizzle]

Gervin

Why did you vote for Walton (and other MVP big the past round Wes and Reed) abut not McAdoo? Also, you didn't vote for Cowens either?

[kshutts1]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season. --- So sad. I'd vote him for a contributor, but not as a player.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons.


Players still eligible after receiving multiple votes in the previous classes

David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis

Pretty weak class. I expected more. A few locks, then a few to debate.

[kshutts1]

These guys could be but not based on our precedent
Dan Issel
Bobby Jones
Maurice Lucas
Neil Johnston
Jamaal Wilkes
David Thompson

I'll cast votes for the first six, Wilkens and Belov for sure. I'll use my other two strategically based on what others do.

What precedent did we set that, in your mind, eliminates the second leading scorer of a major professional league?
Has there been a distinct de-valuing of the ABA as a whole? I know some posters do, but have we as a group?

[kshutts1]

And just to everyone... Bill Walton is the pick I'm most struggling with right now. I understand the arguments for him. He was pretty transcendent in his... TWO valid years.

No denying his talent and ability, but the career was ruined by injuries.

I'm one of the people that voted for Stokes, and I admitted in a later thread it was a mistake. I just don't think a career spanning twelve seasons, but with only 468 (roughly 6 seasons worth) games played, and only 3 seasons with 60 or more games. 6 seasons with 50 or more games, and that's including basically his last two when he was mostly a bench player.

I hate leaving him out, because he could have done so much. But he didn't.

[L.Kizzle]

What precedent did we set that, in your mind, eliminates the second leading scorer of a major professional league?
Has there been a distinct de-valuing of the ABA as a whole? I know some posters do, but have we as a group?

Louie Dampier isn't in. Never been on the ballot. You never bought his name up.

[MP.Trey]

GOAT, I'm going to cast my last two votes for Bob Lanier & Dave Bing to keep them on the ballot if nothing else.

[WillC]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

Julius Erving

George Gervin

Artis Gilmore

Dan Issel - An underrated all-time great. One of the best players in ABA history, an ABA champion, a prolific scorer, tremendous shooter for his position, put up similar numbers in the NBA to ABA (so you can't say he dominated against weaker competition). He's a Hall of Famer.

Bob McAdoo

Bill Walton

Lenny Wilkens - One of the top 3 or 4 guards of his era.

Neil Johnston - Getting overlooked in the voting. Prolific scorer and rebounder who led the league in both categories... and you can't say they were empty stats because his team won games (and a championship). Also led the league in FG% so he wasn't a chucker. Only 3 players have led the league in PPG, RPG and FG% at one point or another of their respective careers: Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.... and Neil Johnston.

Bob Lanier - Played for some pretty bad teams but was consistently very good for long enough to make the Hall of Fame in my opinion.

[SexSymbol]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Sky Hook.

Julius Erving - Only doctor I know with an NBA MVP trophy.

George Gervin - The Iceman won four scoring titles, was named to five all-NBA first teams, seven in total and averaged 26-6-3-1 over 12 prime seasons.

Artis Gilmore - 1972 ABA rookie of the year and MVP. 1975 ABA playoff MVP on Championship winning Kentucky Colonels. In 5 ABA seasons made 5 all-ABA 1st teams, 5 all-star teams. made six more NBA all-star teams.

Dan Issel - 6x ABA all-star, 5x all-ABA, second leading scorer on ABA history. 13 prime seasons (7 NBA) of 23-10-3-1 as top perimeter shooting big man of his day.

Bobby Jones - Defensive standout and sixth man extraordinaire for the 1983 Champion Sixers. 5x all-star, 11x all-defensive first team in first 11 seasons. 9 NBA, 2 ABA

Maurice Lucas - 2nd best player on 1977 NBA Champions; leading scorer, second leading rebounder. 17-10-3-1 over 9 prime seasons; 5x all-star 1x all-NBA 2x all-defense

Bob McAdoo - 1975 MVP, 3x scoring champion, 28-12-3-2 over seven prime seasons; 5x all-star, 2x all-NBA, won two titles with Lakers later in career including playing pivitol sixth man role in 1982.

Norm Nixon - 2x all-star; 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1985 Champions 17-3-9-2 over seven prime seasons

Ralph Sampson - 1983 Rookie of the year teamed with Olajuwon to led Houston to 1986 NBA Finals. 21-11-3-1-2 in three prime seasons.

Bill Walton - 1978 MVP; 1977 Finals MVP on World Champion Blazers. 1986 Sixth man of the year on World Champion Celtics. Injured pretty much every other season.

Jamaal Wilkes - 1975 rookie of the year and 2nd best player on world Champion Warriors. 3rd/4th best player on 1980 and 1982 NBA Champions. Versatile two-way forward 3x all-star, 2x all-defense

Gus Williams - Leading scorer and arguably best player on 1979 Champion Sonics. 1981 all-NBA first team, 2x all-star, 1x all-nba 2nd team. 20-3-6-2 in 7 prime seasons.


David Thompson
Bob Lanier
Neil Johnston
Sergei Belov
Gus Johnson
Lenny Wilkens
Dave Bing
George McGinnis

I choose to eliminate Lenny Wilkens and George McGinnis from my ballot

[L.Kizzle]

Lenny Wilkens - One of the top 3 or 4 guards of his era.

How does he compare to Hal Greer and Sam Jones? Those two were usually next in line after O and West.

[G.O.A.T]

What precedent did we set that, in your mind, eliminates the second leading scorer of a major professional league?
Has there been a distinct de-valuing of the ABA as a whole? I know some posters do, but have we as a group?

No one even mentioned Louie Dampier who leads that league in all-time scoring.

And I don't think we've devalued the ABA thus far. Mel Daniels got in, Connie Hawkins too. Billy Cunningham, that's four MVP's out of ten. Doc has three, he's getting in. Artis looks solid too. That only leaves Haywood and McGinnis (who still has a shot)

The fact is that most of the ABA's best players were NBA stars before or after. We've ignored guys like Zelmo Beaty, Roger Brown and Dampier who played huge roles on title teams because the rest of their careers aren't elite. Same thing with NBA guys like Chet Walker, Cliff Hagan and Bob Dandridge. I think we've done okay.

And just to everyone... Bill Walton is the pick I'm most struggling with right now. I understand the arguments for him. He was pretty transcendent in his... TWO valid years.

No denying his talent and ability, but the career was ruined by injuries.

I'm one of the people that voted for Stokes, and I admitted in a later thread it was a mistake. I just don't think a career spanning twelve seasons, but with only 468 (roughly 6 seasons worth) games played, and only 3 seasons with 60 or more games. 6 seasons with 50 or more games, and that's including basically his last two when he was mostly a bench player.

I hate leaving him out, because he could have done so much. But he didn't.

The reason I voted for him, and I believe many share my sentiments is that in his two almost healthy prime seasons he managed to win an MVP, led a team to the title, led a team to the leagues record and win a Finals MVP. Most of the guys were going to in unanimously could not do that in a 10-15 year healthy career. Surely we will vote in Ewing he did none of those things. Barkley and Malone have two of four achievements.

How can you vote for Issel, a great player, but a guy who made one NBA all-star team in nine NBA seasons and not Walton who led the Blazers to a title in that all-star season for Issel ('77)?

I understand why Stokes i in, Hawkins too, they had short careers for reasons beyond their control. The same is true with Walton, except he achieved much more in his short stint. If he's not in, (he will be) he would likely be the only player who was every considered the best in the NBA not to make it.

How does he compare to Hal Greer and Sam Jones? Those two were usually next in line after O and West.

I disagree with Will C when he says that Wilkens was one of the top 3-4 gaurds of his era. I believe he was perpetually the fifth best guard, behind his two classmates (West and Oscar) as well as Sam Jones and Hal Greer throughout the sixties. That's why he has no all-NBA nods. Like Thurmond, Bellamy and Beaty at center, there was too much high end star power ahead of him at his position.

Lenny Wilkens needs one more vote to get in, I know SexSymbol eliminated him, does anyone have an open spot who would consider voting for him still?

[WillC]

Wilkins was still averaging around 20ppg and 8apg after Sam Jones retired.

[G.O.A.T]

Wilkins was still averaging around 20ppg and 8apg after Sam Jones retired.

By then guys like Dave Bing, Gail Goodrich and Walt Frazier had entered the picture. Wilkens was having good statistical seasons but doing on awful teams, expansion Seattle and expansion Cleveland.

Following his amazing 1968 season (2nd to Wilt in MVP) the aging guard was traded for Walt Hazzard and later traded again for Butch Beard. All while averaging around 20/10.

Here are the ranks I have for Wilkens as a guard post Sam Jones

1970 - 6th behind West, Clyde, Oscar, Monroe, Goodrich (just ahead of Bing and Greer)
1971 - 6th behind Oscar, West, Frazier, Bing, Monroe (right ahead of Archie Clark and Pete Maravich)
1972 - 9th behind West, Frazier, Goodrich, White, Clark, Oscar, Tiny and Pistol (just ahead of Bing and Jerry Sloan)
1973 - 12th behind Frazier, West, Tiny, Maravich, Oscar, White, Goodrich, Monroe, Bing, Van Lier and Charlie Scott.