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Thread: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

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    Down with GLOBALISM poido123's Avatar
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    Default I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    As the title says.

    Having someone who I think defends Lebron better than anyone else and other elite wings is too valuable to lose.

    He plays with a lot of heart too, he's a perfect role player.

    I really hope we can keep him.

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    good scorer Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    I don't think so. I think the Bulls will match any offer he gets. Unless his scoring game really improves. He's not gonna get paid a lot just because he's a great defender.

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    Smile, you're on ISH Crystallas's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Whatever happens, happens.

    I'm not scared shitless because of it. Because you never know what could happen between now and then.

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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by Crystallas
    Whatever happens, happens.

    I'm not scared shitless because of it. Because you never know what could happen between now and then.

    It scares me because he will likely command more money than we can give him and rightfully so, he deserves it.

    He's one of my favourite Bulls players. I like the team as it stands, I wouldn't change it and keep all the pieces together.

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    Down with GLOBALISM poido123's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    I don't think so. I think the Bulls will match any offer he gets. Unless his scoring game really improves. He's not gonna get paid a lot just because he's a great defender.

    How much would be your limit to match?

    Anything north of 8 mill?

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    College superstar tamaraw08's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by poido123
    As the title says.

    Having someone who I think defends Lebron better than anyone else and other elite wings is too valuable to lose.

    He plays with a lot of heart too, he's a perfect role player.

    I really hope we can keep him.
    I really like Butler but I really think one of the major reasons they struggled offensively early last year was that he and Rose did not play great together.
    I hope they keep him but not to the extent of over paying him.
    With Thibs being a great defensive coach, they should be able to find a cheaper alternative via the draft or from the D-League.
    Heck there are cheaper ones right now. Westley Johnson is taking about 1 Mil/yr, or bring back Thabo, yes, these guys are not as good but with a healthier Rose, plus the current lineup, they should be good enough.

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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    I think the reason for his unimpressive offensive performance was that he got pushed into his role too soon.

    Once Rose went down he got bumped up the pecking order. Then we trade Deng, and he goes up again. If DJ wasn't on and Boozer being Jekyll and Hyde, Jimmy was looked at for bail out shots. Not be in strong suit.


    I think this year, if everyone stays healthy he will I'm!prove even more. He should have more freedom to operate and as long as he's cutting, Gasol or Noah will find him.


    But as far as his contract situation goes. Yes, we might lose him. But we knew that going ahead. You can't keep everyone at cheap prices. Maybe we can develop Snell into into a defensive asset. I think we just got to worry about this when/if it happens.

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    good scorer Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by poido123
    How much would be your limit to match?

    Anything north of 8 mill?
    I would be hard pressed to go 8 million. Here's why:
    -Afflalo in denver signed 5/$43. just over 8 million a year, and Afflalo is a way better floor spacer.
    -Avery Bradley 4/32. 8 million a year, again better floor spacer,and offensive player period. but worse defender.
    -Tony Allen 4/20. 5 million a year, neck and neck defensively. Butler is better offensively by a fair margin.
    -Thabo Sefolosha 3/12 4 million a year. little worse defensively, way worse offensively.

    I think the ideal amount is 6-7 million. Anything more is an overpay. Unless he improves offensively. Like others said, a lot of the reasons why he wasn't that great offensively last year aren't gonna effect him this year. So if he becomes a relaible 14ppg and shoots at least 35% from downtown, and way better than the 40% overall last year. He becomes an Afflalo level guy.

    There's a lot to like in his offensive game though. Even as a rookie on a per minute basis he got to the line really well for his experience level. And last year he averaged 5 attempts. That's really nice since he was more or less the first/second option, and no one could space the floor for him. He doesn't take bad shots, he makes efficient passes, etc etc. It's just whether or not he can put the ball in the basket effectively or not this year we're gonna see.

    Plus, while Snell isn't nearly as smart as Jimmy is he has a great body for a defensive wing player. So having a replacement in the wings will make losing him sting less.
    Last edited by Rose; 09-08-2014 at 09:32 AM.

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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    I would be hard pressed to go 8 million. Here's why:
    -Afflalo in denver signed 5/$43. just over 8 million a year, and Afflalo is a way better floor spacer.
    -Avery Bradley 4/32. 8 million a year, again better floor spacer,and offensive player period. but worse defender.
    -Tony Allen 4/20. 5 million a year, neck and neck defensively. Butler is better offensively by a fair margin.
    -Thabo Sefolosha 3/12 4 million a year. little worse defensively, way worse offensively.

    I think the ideal amount is 6-7 million. Anything more is an overpay. Unless he improves offensively. Like others said, a lot of the reasons why he wasn't that great offensively last year aren't gonna effect him this year. So if he becomes a relaible 14ppg and shoots at least 35% from downtown, and way better than the 40% overall last year. He becomes an Afflalo level guy.

    There's a lot to like in his offensive game though. Even as a rookie on a per minute basis he got to the line really well for his experience level. And last year he averaged 5 attempts. That's really nice since he was more or less the first/second option, and no one could space the floor for him. He doesn't take bad shots, he makes efficient passes, etc etc. It's just whether or not he can put the ball in the basket effectively or not this year we're gonna see.

    Plus, while Snell isn't nearly as smart as Jimmy is he has a great body for a defensive wing player. So having a replacement in the wings will make losing him sting less.

    If we can get away with 4 years 24 million I'd be really happy with that. Maybe add an extra year if we can pay him less a year.

    If we are going to get a championship, we have to keep the guy who defends Lebron so well since the road will likely always go through the cavs. Plus we can stick Butler on other good wings like Leonard.

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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    I would be hard pressed to go 8 million. Here's why:
    -Afflalo in denver signed 5/$43. just over 8 million a year, and Afflalo is a way better floor spacer.
    -Avery Bradley 4/32. 8 million a year, again better floor spacer,and offensive player period. but worse defender.
    -Tony Allen 4/20. 5 million a year, neck and neck defensively. Butler is better offensively by a fair margin.
    -Thabo Sefolosha 3/12 4 million a year. little worse defensively, way worse offensively.

    I think the ideal amount is 6-7 million. Anything more is an overpay. Unless he improves offensively. Like others said, a lot of the reasons why he wasn't that great offensively last year aren't gonna effect him this year. So if he becomes a relaible 14ppg and shoots at least 35% from downtown, and way better than the 40% overall last year. He becomes an Afflalo level guy.

    There's a lot to like in his offensive game though. Even as a rookie on a per minute basis he got to the line really well for his experience level. And last year he averaged 5 attempts. That's really nice since he was more or less the first/second option, and no one could space the floor for him. He doesn't take bad shots, he makes efficient passes, etc etc. It's just whether or not he can put the ball in the basket effectively or not this year we're gonna see.

    Plus, while Snell isn't nearly as smart as Jimmy is he has a great body for a defensive wing player. So having a replacement in the wings will make losing him sting less.


    I'm trying to remember though if those guys got that money while they hit free agency for the first time like Butler will do.



    -I know for sure its not Afflalo's first deal. And his came after a breakout year where he put up good stats but on a bad team.

    -Bradley was massively overpaid. And believe me, living in Boston and watching a lot of his games, his impact isn't as great as you'd think unless you have creative players around him.

    -Allen is probably the closest to the contract Jimmy should get. Similar players in a similar scheme under the same guy (thibs). But you're right, Butler is already far more refined then Allen was when he left Boston

  11. #11
    good scorer Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by ballinhun8
    I'm trying to remember though if those guys got that money while they hit free agency for the first time like Butler will do.



    -I know for sure its not Afflalo's first deal. And his came after a breakout year where he put up good stats but on a bad team.

    -Bradley was massively overpaid. And believe me, living in Boston and watching a lot of his games, his impact isn't as great as you'd think unless you have creative players around him.

    -Allen is probably the closest to the contract Jimmy should get. Similar players in a similar scheme under the same guy (thibs). But you're right, Butler is already far more refined then Allen was when he left Boston
    TA's is his extension, I want to say when he left Boston initially he got like 6 million a year for 2 years, but there's a gap where he should have had a year or two with Boston after his rookie deal. I don't know how much that was worth. Sefolosha's is the contract he got this summer, again I can't find what his first one was.

    I actually used Afflalo's first non-rookie deal as the example.(which believe it or not is what he's still on) But what's weird is a news article from denver reported the 43 I listed, but in reality its
    only 36.

    I know people don't like Bradley a lot, but I always did. I remember on the main forum his rookie year people hated him. I said give him time and his sophomore year he turned it around a lot and they all flip flopped on him.
    Last edited by Rose; 09-08-2014 at 12:25 PM.

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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Butler has been holding our offense back, IMO.

    I've long wanted to trade him for someone more well-rounded. Target was always Stephenson. I'd rather he not walk away for nothing, as he has value, but wouldn't mind his leaving.

    But of course all of this can be forgotten about by his having a great season and turning into a 3 and D guy, or another Deng... a limited offensive player that KNOWS his limits and plays to his strengths, while playing top 5-10 perimeter D.

  13. #13
    Do. Your. Job. Undisputed's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    I am judging Butler for how he performs this season. It's time that his offense comes together, needless to say.

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    Down with GLOBALISM poido123's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by kshutts1
    Butler has been holding our offense back, IMO.

    I've long wanted to trade him for someone more well-rounded. Target was always Stephenson. I'd rather he not walk away for nothing, as he has value, but wouldn't mind his leaving.

    But of course all of this can be forgotten about by his having a great season and turning into a 3 and D guy, or another Deng... a limited offensive player that KNOWS his limits and plays to his strengths, while playing top 5-10 perimeter D.

    Yeah I'm one of the few that thought lance Stephenson would of been really good for us. I think there would be enough leadership and good locker room guys around to keep him grounded.

    There's no denying lances energy and tenacious play is infectious and powerful if harnessed the right way. I bet he has a great season with the hornets, MJ might be able to mentor him a bit.

    I like Undisputed's mindset on Butler. Let's judge him on THIS season and see where he's at. If he still shows poor offense then maybe he should only be paid as a defensive specialist and not the all-round player we see him as.

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    College superstar tamaraw08's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'mscared shitless that we could lose Butler next year because of money

    Quote Originally Posted by Rose
    I would be hard pressed to go 8 million. Here's why:
    -Afflalo in denver signed 5/$43. just over 8 million a year, and Afflalo is a way better floor spacer.
    -Avery Bradley 4/32. 8 million a year, again better floor spacer,and offensive player period. but worse defender.
    -Tony Allen 4/20. 5 million a year, neck and neck defensively. Butler is better offensively by a fair margin.
    -Thabo Sefolosha 3/12 4 million a year. little worse defensively, way worse offensively.

    I think the ideal amount is 6-7 million. Anything more is an overpay. Unless he improves offensively. Like others said, a lot of the reasons why he wasn't that great offensively last year aren't gonna effect him this year. So if he becomes a relaible 14ppg and shoots at least 35% from downtown, and way better than the 40% overall last year. He becomes an Afflalo level guy.

    There's a lot to like in his offensive game though. Even as a rookie on a per minute basis he got to the line really well for his experience level. And last year he averaged 5 attempts. That's really nice since he was more or less the first/second option, and no one could space the floor for him. He doesn't take bad shots, he makes efficient passes, etc etc. It's just whether or not he can put the ball in the basket effectively or not this year we're gonna see.

    Plus, while Snell isn't nearly as smart as Jimmy is he has a great body for a defensive wing player. So having a replacement in the wings will make losing him sting less.
    All good points. Snell has been known to be a really good shooter, Im not sure if he's up to the task of being a great defender but hey, when you have Thibs as a coach, anything can happen. Or, they can develope a D-leaguer to step up.
    Again I like the defensive flexibility of Wesley Johnson, able to cover SGs, SF's and smaller PFs and more importantly, he can be had for 1.5-2 Mil/yr IMO.
    Im with 2 other posters here. Let's see how Butler plays this yr tho. I really think he needs a shooting guru to make him more of a consistent shooter.
    Then again, If he really plays great. Bulls will probably let him go just like they did to Deng, Korver, Belli etc.

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