1996 Plus-Minus Data

[HurricaneKid]

88-93 is just the Sixers, scroll down and the league-wide numbers should be there.

I'll have to check at home then. I can't get to them on my work CPU (old programs).

[3ball]

Top 10 +/- Scores from Entire Period (1994 to 2014)

1. 96 Jordan +980, +16.7, +15.2
2. 96 Pippen +899, +16.8, +11.8
3. 09 Lebron +871, +15, +21.2
4. 97 Jordan +818, +14, +9.7
5. 97 Pippen +807, +13.9, +9
6. 08 Pierce +784, +14.2, +9.8
7. 03 Nowitzki +778, +12.6, +20.4
8. 97 Hornacek +775, +15.9, +18
9. 97 Malone +768, +13.7, +16.3
10. 07 Duncan +746, +13.8, +14.5


This data wasn't even from his prime... So Jordan's the GOAT... Lebron might get to 6 rings with his newest super-team, but it won't mean as much because he won all the rings by being able to play with experienced veterans right away, which gave him the advantage over other players that didn't get to skip the skip the player development stages like he did, or the ups and downs of having tenure with a team.

People often underrate scoring versatility, but this versatility is what allows a player to fit in better with teammates, have better takeover ability, be more clutch, and even dunk on guys much more often and in many more ways, as we saw with the GIF's of 100 chest-to-chest MJ posters.

Also, Basketball Reference has LeBron at +1017 for the 08-09 season.

more lies to prop up lebron... ... It was +871... NOT +1017.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...er_by=diff_pts
.

[RRR3]

LeBron not even in the top 10 :

Okay, 3ball, I'm convinced, LeBron really is terrible


MJ=Jesus/Buddha/Yahweh/Allah/Jennifer Lopez/Jimi Hendrix

[SamuraiSWISH]

GOAT goating doe

[LeBird]

OP rivaling Kennethgriffin in retardedness

Difference being with Kenneth it's an act. This guy is actually serious.

[3ball]

Difference being with Kenneth it's an act. This guy is actually serious.

Your post is an act to deny the truth in the OP.. Lebron's value-add goes down when he plays with talent..

[juju151111]

Difference being with Kenneth it's an act. This guy is actually serious.

He didn't come up with the list. He just posting it

[kshutts1]

Top 10 +/- Scores from Entire Period (1994 to 2014)

1. 96 Jordan +980, +16.7, +15.2
2. 96 Pippen +899, +16.8, +11.8
3. 09 Lebron +871, +15, +21.2
4. 97 Jordan +818, +14, +9.7
5. 97 Pippen +807, +13.9, +9
6. 08 Pierce +784, +14.2, +9.8
7. 03 Nowitzki +778, +12.6, +20.4
8. 97 Hornacek +775, +15.9, +18
9. 97 Malone +768, +13.7, +16.3
10. 07 Duncan +746, +13.8, +14.5


This data wasn't even from his prime... So Jordan's the GOAT... Lebron might get to 6 rings with his newest super-team, but it won't mean as much because he won all the rings by being able to play with experienced veterans right away, which gave him the advantage over other players that didn't get to skip the skip the player development stages like he did, or the ups and downs of having tenure with a team.

So using your logic, Pippen is obviously better than Lebron as well, not to mention every other guy on that list... Or am I misunderstanding your saying Jordan is "obviously GOAT" because his +/- is higher?

[jlip]

Thanks to Flpiii's post in another forum, we have plus-minus data for 1996... http://www42.zippyshare.com/v/14257621/file.html

For 1996, Jordan led all players with +980, which is the largest +/- recorded since the data became available in 1994..


Top 10 +/- From 1996 Season

Jordan +980
Pippen +899
Kukocs +677
D. Robinson +625
Stockton +606
R. Harper +600
K. Malone +593
P. Hardaway +584
Rodman +581
Payton +577

11. Longley +520


With 5 players in the top 11, the 1996 Bulls are clearly the greatest team of all-time, and Jordan's off-ball style is clearly the optimal style for a wing player to lead the team with since it results in the most synergies and elevated play from stiffs like Longley and role players like Harper/Kukocs.

.

Where did you learn to draw conclusions? You just claimed that judging from data that only goes back to 1994, the Bulls were "clearly the greatest team of all time." You made a clear, definitive statement about every team since 1946 based primarily on +/- data since 1994. What we know is that the 1996 Bulls clearly had the best regular season record of all time. That's it.

[DatAsh]

Difference being with Kenneth it's an act. This guy is actually serious.

No way Kenneth is an act. He's been at it for 15 years. I think both are serious.

[HurricaneKid]

more lies to prop up lebron... ... It was +871... NOT +1017.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...er_by=diff_pts
.

You are too dumb to even understand what stat you are using. Every decent measure of on/off compares the team without a player and with the player. All you are doing is the half of the equation for when they are on the floor.

The Bulls were +29 without MJ in 2006. The Cavs were -137 without LeBron in 2009. And you are completely ignoring that portion of the equation. AGAIN AND AGAIN.

[Sakkreth]

08/09 Cavs were -137 without LeBron on the floor and +871 with LeBron on the floor

[HurricaneKid]

08/09 Cavs were -137 without LeBron on the floor and +871 with LeBron on the floor

http://www.82games.com/0809/08CLE9.HTM

Yeah, never seen anything like it. Thats a bottom 5 NBA team without him and a top 10 in wins team with him.

Really curious what first 3-peat and before MJ looks like...

[ralph_i_el]

You are too dumb to even understand what stat you are using. Every decent measure of on/off compares the team without a player and with the player. All you are doing is the half of the equation for when they are on the floor.

The Bulls were +29 without MJ in 2006. The Cavs were -137 without LeBron in 2009. And you are completely ignoring that portion of the equation. AGAIN AND AGAIN.

ether. drop knowledge, gain green. future rep

[RRR3]

Hurricanekid bodybagged 3ball