Scottie Pippen vs. John Havlicek

[oarabbus]

LOL @ Hondo being top 15-20 GOAT or top 4 GOAT SF

Who is he better than out of these players

MJ
Russell
KAJ
Hakeem
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Wilt
KG
Timmy
Dirk
Moses
Oscar
Jerry
Karl
Chuck
Robinson
Lebron
DrJ
Wade

get outta here

How many of those guys have 8 rings and an FMVP behind their name. Wades got one but Pippen > Wade

and Hondo > Pippen

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

get outta here

How many of those guys have 8 rings and an FMVP behind their name. Wades got one but Pippen > Wade

and Hondo > Pippen

Wade is way better than Pippen WTF u smokin
he has 8 rings b/c he played on stacked teams and most of the time he wasnt the best player and even the 2nd best on others
Tony Parker has a FMVP and 4 rings...........so hes better than Wade and Pippen right

[oarabbus]

Wade is way better than Pippen WTF u smokin
he has 8 rings b/c he played on stacked teams

Russell said he was the greatest all around player he ever saw.

But I guess Bill Russell wasn't that good either since he played on stacked teams. Sam Jones wasn't that good, he just played on stacked teams. None of those Celtics were actually good, they just played on stacked teams

and most of the time he wasnt the best player and even the 2nd best on others
Tony Parker has a FMVP and 4 rings...........so hes better than Wade and Pippen right

No he isn't but John Havlicek is. He played with Russell for 6 years. Then won two more rings without him so your argument doesn't even make sense.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Russell said he was the greatest all around player he ever saw.

But I guess Bill Russell wasn't that good either since he played on stacked teams. Sam Jones wasn't that good, he just played on stacked teams. None of those Celtics were actually good, they just played on stacked teams

hes good and so is sam. Not top 20 good thats reserved for players who can actually make dominant impact as the man. Hondo is top 50 tho. Sam Jones top 100

No he isn't but John Havlicek is. He played with Russell for 6 years. Then won two more rings without him so your argument doesn't even make sense.

Cowens was considered better than Hondo
he is a Paul Pierce level player

[oarabbus]

hes good and so is sam. Not top 20 good thats reserved for players who can actually make dominant impact as the man. Hondo is top 50 tho. Sam Jones top 100

Alright that's fair. I never said personally that he was a top 20 GOAT, just that I'd take him over Pippen.

[DatAsh]

Alright that's fair. I never said personally that he was a top 20 GOAT, just that I'd take him over Pippen.

I see Hondo as a top 20 player. He'll probably pushed out eventually, but for now I don't see 20 players that were clearly better.

[bizil]

hes good and so is sam. Not top 20 good thats reserved for players who can actually make dominant impact as the man. Hondo is top 50 tho. Sam Jones top 100







Cowens was considered better than Hondo
he is a Paul Pierce level player

For one, GOAT status factors:

Talent
Longevity being great
Numbers
Solo accolades
Team Accolades
Impact on the L (redefining a position, face of the league, box office, etc)

When u look at my criteria, Hondo as IT ALL IN SPADES!! In terms of talent, he was point forward caliber, a lockdown defender, AND an alpha dog level scorer. Hondo could actually play AND defend PG, SG, and SF if needed. That had NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE in the NBA from a SF. So that aspect covers my impact because he redefined the SF position.

In terms of numbers, he has 26,395 points, 6114 dimes, and 8007 rebounds. That indicates tremendous versatility and skills level. The only guy who can top that AND PROVIDE lockdown D is Bron! I'm sure Bron will eclipse those numbers, but Bron and Hondo are in a class of their own among forwards in that realm. Think about that, ONLY TWO SF'S EVER will have those numbers AND were lockdown defenders!

Solo and team accolades were already mentioned brilliantly by the OP. So with all this going for him, how could Hondo NOT BE a top 15-20 player and top 4 GOAT SF! Peak value is only PART OF THE EQUATION!! U have to look at the ENTIRE RESUME FOR GOAT! Because peak value wise, T-Mac is a top 4 SG of all time in my book. But GOAT wise, u can't put him up that high. Guys like Robinson, Barkley, Malone, Isiah, etc. were all beasts. But Hondo's total resume trumps them. If u think they were better peak wise then cool! But GOAT is the most valuable list and Hondo has them beat QUITE FRANKLY!!!

[La Frescobaldi]

hes good and so is sam. Not top 20 good thats reserved for players who can actually make dominant impact as the man. Hondo is top 50 tho. Sam Jones top 100







Cowens was considered better than Hondo
he is a Paul Pierce level player

Absurd to think Havlicek and Jones were not totally, ferociously dominant.