Kobe is -0.5 in defensive plus/minus for his career

[pastis]

Kobe being a below average defender for his career is nothing new to objective fans.

so kobe stans cant give his first def-selections and being a "elite perimeter defender" as an argument.
i like. it fact this was clear since many years, but kobe stans still give his "elite defense skills" as an argument.

kobe maybe earned 1 first and 2 second teams in his career. at best. not more.

[Micku]

How you can say Kobe's plus minus differential sticks out relative to you other All defensive team award winners if you apparently have no data on leave average on/data for shooting guards or made no attempt to vet the other players on the team in the same way?

-2.7 is really the best for centers that year? I doubt it.

Why hold Kobe Bryant to some ridiculous standard if you are not going to the same for everyone else on the list?

It sticks out because it was the worst one out of the 1st NBA defensive team. And he wasn't even the best defensive player on his own team that year. They are indeed others that are more worthy of the 1st all defensive team title, but didn't even get on either team as I said. There are different sorts of plus/minus stats. You can also use box plus/minus stat, which is supposed to be a performance relative to league average. Kobe was 291th on box plus/minus stat on the defensive end (Ronnie Brewer was 13th). And like I said before tho, the plus/minus isn't an end all to be all. Plus/minus depends on other factors as well. You have to use other stats as well and use them within context. There is a bit of subjective involved as well.

And -2.7 wasn't the best for centers that year.

[Blue&Orange]

You guys better stop talking about this plus/minus thing, unless you guys want Lebron to start coming from the bench and play 20 minutes a game, so that he can stat pad +/- playing against the other team bench. You guys know he will do it if this +\- becomes relevant.

[ArbitraryWater]

Is Yao Ming's Foot actually serious in this thread?!?!

Just accept the fact that 2011 was a horrible selection and move on goddammit.... Wow. Asking all these irrelevant questions, when everyone else in the first Team had much better defensive statistics, AND guys from the second Team, AND guys that were left off like Dwyane Wade.... That's proof enough.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

It sticks out because it was the worst one out of the 1st NBA defensive team. And he wasn't even the best defensive player on his own team that year. They are indeed others that are more worthy of the 1st all defensive team title, but didn't even get on either team as I said. There are different sorts of plus/minus stats. You can also use box plus/minus stat, which is supposed to be a performance relative to league average. Kobe was 291th on box plus/minus stat on the defensive end (Ronnie Brewer was 13th). And like I said before tho, the plus/minus isn't an end all to be all. Plus/minus depends on other factors as well. You have to use other stats as well and use them within context. There is a bit of subjective involved as well.

And -2.7 wasn't the best for centers that year.

Kobe Bryant did not deserve his all defensive tean selections if you

1) ignore historical trends in voting (guys like Ronnie Brewer almost never get selected. You could find a "Ronnie Brewer" at every other position as well)
2) make irrelevant comparisons (Its irrelevant if Kobe was the best defender on his own team or if his defensive impact was on par with the big men who made the team. Its not a top 5 defensive impact team or it would be 5 big men every year. )

Now you are backpedaling and saying its not just this stat that we should we use. There are other stats we should look at as well as subjectivity. As if the coaches who routinely voted Kobe the top defensive shooting guard don't already do that.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

In 2011 Ronnie Brewer played 1781 minutes... Kobe Bryant 2779.

[andgar923]

Frobe wasn't great either.

Defense is about 'consistency' and Kobe has NEVER had that. He'd be good in a possession or two. But his laziness, ego, and overall low IQ (during FroBe years) were outweighing the moments he did want to play defense.

On top of that, he had Shaq in the middle to correct his mistakes (which were tons).

He also only guarded top scorers on certain possessions not an entire game. It was usually Fox, Shaw, George, Ariza, and Fish that guarded the top perimeter players while Kobe usually coasted on defense.

People acting as if FroBe was some defensive juggernaut but he wasn't.

he had moments, but his errs outweighed his pros.

I can see maybe a second team all defense tops, and even then perhaps just a season. There's been certainly more qualified defenders.

Sure, he's one of the best defenders for star players at his position but not overall.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Sure, he's one of the best defenders for star players at his position but not overall.

This is pretty much the definition of the typical all defensive team selection throughout NBA history.