Wilt most dominant ever, Russell greatest winner ever.

[LAZERUSS]

I dont care about "resumes"
i care about how good players actually were and none of those guys touch Keem

Hakeem was SELDOM even considered a Top-4 player in HIS era (FOUR times in 18 seasons.) On top of that, he wasn't even considered Top-TEN in HIS era for nearly HALF of his 18 seasons (EIGHT times he wasn't a Top-10 player.)

KAJ's resume would be pretty empty without MAGIC.

A PRIME Kareem, in his first ten seasons... won ONE ring, went to TWO Finals (losing one of them in a blowout loss in a game seven on his hom floor), was knocked out in the first round TWICE (and one of those with a 60-22 team that lost to a 47-35 team), was SWEPT with HCA in another, was blown out TWO years in a row by a team that had ONE borderline HOF player, and missed the playoffs TWICE in his pure prime.

[deja vu]

All that dominating and he could only muster 2 rings. Only one of which was in his prime.

If only he deferred more to his teammates and stopped being a black hole earlier he would have won more.

Which makes me think that Wilt had a huge ego and cared about his stats and how to look good on the court.

While Bill concentrated on unselfish team play Wilt was jacking shots like there's no tomorrow.

[dunksby]

Hakeem was SELDOM even considered a Top-4 player in HIS era (FOUR times in 18 seasons.) On top of that, he wasn't even considered Top-TEN in HIS era for nearly HALF of his 18 seasons (EIGHT times he wasn't a Top-10 player.)

KAJ's resume would be pretty empty without MAGIC.

A PRIME Kareem, in his first ten seasons... won ONE ring, went to TWO Finals (losing one of them in a blowout loss in a game seven on his hom floor), was knocked out in the first round TWICE (and one of those with a 60-22 team that lost to a 47-35 team), was SWEPT with HCA in another, was blown out TWO years in a row by a team that had ONE borderline HOF player, and missed the playoffs TWICE in his pure prime.

I wonder why it took this inferior Kareem less time to win a ring than the MOST DOMINATING PLAYER EVER!!!! Magic would be nothing without Kareem, what did Magic accomplish after Kareem? Go away you old fart.

[Psileas]

I wonder why it took this inferior Kareem less time to win a ring than the MOST DOMINATING PLAYER EVER!!!! Magic would be nothing without Kareem, what did Magic accomplish after Kareem? Go away you old fart.

Do you also wonder why it took Jordan so much to win a ring, much like Wilt? Shaq? I guess Kobe has to be ranked above them, as well...
What did Magic accomplish after Kareem? How about leading the Lakers past a 63-win team to the NBA Finals, winning an MVP, being runner up once, plus winning a championship, leading the Lakers to a 11-0 playoff record in the West and winning another MVP after Kareem actually mattered? Using classical Wilt haterboy logic here, Magic seemingly got better without Kareem, lol.

[LAZERUSS]

Do you also wonder why it took Jordan so much to win a ring, much like Wilt? Shaq? I guess Kobe has to be ranked above them, as well...
What did Magic accomplish after Kareem? How about leading the Lakers past a 63-win team to the NBA Finals, winning an MVP, being runner up once, plus winning a championship, leading the Lakers to a 11-0 playoff record in the West and winning another MVP after Kareem actually mattered? Using classical Wilt haterboy logic here, Magic seemingly got better without Kareem, lol.

I was going to respond to dunksby....but you covered it already.

[LAZERUSS]

All that dominating and he could only muster 2 rings. Only one of which was in his prime.

If only he deferred more to his teammates and stopped being a black hole earlier he would have won more.

Which makes me think that Wilt had a huge ego and cared about his stats and how to look good on the court.

While Bill concentrated on unselfish team play Wilt was jacking shots like there's no tomorrow.

You really need to do some actual research before you post gibberish.

It was Wilt's COACH who asked Chamberlain to score 50 ppg...NOT Chamberlain.

And why? Just the year before, in the first round of the playoffs, the Warriors were swept by the Nats, 3-0. Chamberlain did his share... 37 ppg and 23 rpp. How about his teammates? They collectively shot .332 from the field. Wilt's two top teammates shot .325 and .206 respectively.

What was interesting, though...is that Wilt's COACH then had Chamberlain shooting less in the '62 post-season. And it nearly paid off. They lost a game seven to the 60-20 Celtics by two points.

[dunksby]

Do you also wonder why it took Jordan so much to win a ring, much like Wilt? Shaq? I guess Kobe has to be ranked above them, as well...
What did Magic accomplish after Kareem? How about leading the Lakers past a 63-win team to the NBA Finals, winning an MVP, being runner up once, plus winning a championship, leading the Lakers to a 11-0 playoff record in the West and winning another MVP after Kareem actually mattered? Using classical Wilt haterboy logic here, Magic seemingly got better without Kareem, lol.

I have Kareem over Jordan and Shaq so yes it matters, I have problem with jlauber here trying to prop up Wilt by putting down Kareem. I try to let it go but his constant jabs irk me.

[LAZERUSS]

Do you also wonder why it took Jordan so much to win a ring, much like Wilt? Shaq? I guess Kobe has to be ranked above them, as well...
What did Magic accomplish after Kareem? How about leading the Lakers past a 63-win team to the NBA Finals, winning an MVP, being runner up once, plus winning a championship, leading the Lakers to a 11-0 playoff record in the West and winning another MVP after Kareem actually mattered? Using classical Wilt haterboy logic here, Magic seemingly got better without Kareem, lol.

Those that make the argument that Magic didn't win a ring without Kareem, are deluding themselves.

He CLEARLY would have won a ring in '88 without Kareem. Hell, Stanley Hudson could have put up KAJ's awful post-season numbers that year. To be honest, they won a ring that year DESPITE Kareem's horrific post-season.

Furthermore, their '86-87 team was good enough to have won with Thompson and Green taking KAJ's minutes, as well.

You mentioned '89. They were 11-0 going into the Finals with the Pistons. Had they not lost Byron Scott in the last game of the WCF's, and then Magic in game two of that year's Finals, they might well have won a ring that year, too. In any case, KAJ didn't pick up the slack.

And, go back to the '82 post-season, and particularly the Finals. Bob McAdoo nearly matched KAJ's numbers, and in way less mpg. Again, as easily as they waltzed to the title in '82, and with Magic putting up a near triple-double post-season, and Finals, and they probably would have won a title THAT year, without Kareem.

And finally...technically, they did win a ring, and in Kareem's last great season...withOUT Abdul-Jabbar. In Magic's rookie season, they handily won the title-clinching game, on the road no less, with Kareem watching the game from his couch. And, as everyone here knows...Magic had a HISTORIC game in that clincher. A 42-15-7 game (BTW, his 15 rebounds were WAY more than anyone else on the floor that night.)


And I always found Magic's '90 post-season as an indication of what his true scoring potential. In the last two games of the series against the Suns, albeit in a series loss, all Magic did was hang consecutive 43 point games. So, we had Magic, at the beginning of his career with a 42 point Finals game, and a Magic, nearing the end of his career, with back-to-back 43 point games.


Oh, and one more thing. In their 10 seasons in the league together, KAJ went 61-40 (.604) in games in which Magic missed. How about Magic in games in which Kareem missed? 24-8 (.750.) BTW, Magic had a CAREER W-L percentage of .743 withOUT Kareem.

Needless to say, Magic was a considerably better "winner" than Kareem was in their overall careers.

[KingBeasley08]

You could definitely make the case but let's also remember that Bill would be a slightly better Joel Anthony today and Wilt would be at best a Dwight Howard caliber player. More likely a Javale McGee that's not mentally retarded. These facts have to be taken into consideration

[LAZERUSS]

You could definitely make the case but let's also remember that Bill would be a slightly better Joel Anthony today and Wilt would be at best a Dwight Howard caliber player. More likely a Javale McGee that's not mentally retarded. These facts have to be taken into consideration

So Russell would basically be worthless, and a Wilt, who was taller, longer, bigger, stronger, faster, at least as athletic, and more skilled than Howard is today...would be about HALF the player he was at his peak?