Has Any Star Player Ever Had As Negative An Impact On His Team...

[DonDadda59]

Dude coming out of the grave on some Thriller bullshit

Hold up yo argument holds no weight......Not only did Pippen , Grant and Armstrong make the Allstar team without MJ...They all shot a higher FG% despite taking MORE shots...

Dwight, Pau, Ariza all former Bean teammates who are taking more shots, scoring more, shooting better, and leading separate teams to the top of their respective conference post 37%be AKA Mr. 1-9 and counting.

Godbe help you if Gasol or Howard wins MVP and they lead their teams to the finals while Bean chucks the Lakers to a 12-70 record without them

( Now here's where it gets fun) the Bulls Defense improved holding teams to only 94PPG compared to 98ppg with MJ!! ( because of Kerr or Toni??....no way)

When Jordan came back for a full season, the Bulls were ranked #1 on offense (went from c. 101 PPG w/o him to 105.2 w/ him), #1 on defense (went from c. 97 PPG w/o him to 92.9 w/ him) and won a record 72 games. But that was all Rodman and his 64 games doe

MJ could have easily been a bald headed Dominique Wilkins if not for the Phil System.....

And what's Bean without an all star level big man? Taller, greedier, less efficient, less impactful Iverson is what. This is the second time in his career he's proven that. MVPau

where's my cookies....nom...num...nom...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

In terms of impact, it's been known for long time now that of hall of famers, Kobe has the least impact individual-wise.

Well there are some role-players in the hall of fame, but if there was a impact/popularity ratio, Kobe's would be among the lowest.

[unbreakable]

this team is garbage defensively.. kobe shut down lebron in the all star game a few months ago..

kobe is still ELITE, but his teammates are garbage (lin is aight and respectable)

no bigs, no defense = hopeless.. atleast kobe makes this team FUN TO WATCH $$$$

[AlphaWolf24]

Dude coming out of the grave on some Thriller bullshit

JJJJAMMMM!

Dwight, Pau, Ariza all former Bean teammates who are taking more shots, scoring more, shooting better, and leading separate teams to the top of their respective conference post 37%be AKA Mr. 1-9 and counting.

Godbe help you if Gasol or Howard wins MVP and they lead their teams to the finals while Bean chucks the Lakers to a 12-70 record without them

You have a point...just as Pippen nearly won an MVP without MJ...nearly won a Title without MJ...on the flipside...MJ without Pippen had 5 losing seasons and a 1 - 10 playoff record with a .420% winning %



When Jordan came back for a full season, the Bulls were ranked #1 on offense (went from c. 101 PPG w/o him to 105.2 w/ him), #1 on defense (went from c. 97 PPG w/o him to 92.9 w/ him) and won a record 72 games. But that was all Rodman and his 64 games doe


So if it wasn't because of Rodman then how come the Bull's didn't win 72 in 1991 , 92 , 93'??..when Jordan was at his absolute peak


again...MJ returned in 1995 and played 17 games before the playoffs ( he played 20 games in 1986 after a severe injury before returning) There was no rust in 1986...The Bull's couldn't compete with Orlando because they had no interior Defense and rebounding.

enter Rodman and the Bull's play great!...even better then 1991 - 93' when MJ was at his peak...Kindergarten math son.

And what's Bean without an all star level big man? Taller, greedier, less efficient, less impactful Iverson is what. This is the second time in his career he's proven that. MVPau

Badheaded Dominique Wilkins VS Allen Iverson if he drank Milk...seems fair

2EZ...thumps chest

[DonDadda59]

You have a point...just as Pippen nearly won an MVP without MJ...nearly won a Title without MJ...on the flipside...MJ without Pippen had 5 losing seasons and a 1 - 10 playoff record with a .420% winning %

Pippen 'nearly won a title' when he lost in the second round? Dwight nearly won a title when he led the Magic to the Finals, same with Shaq. That's what your teammates nearly winning the title without you actually looks like. And you just might get a refresher course again this season with 2 former Kobe scapegoats going at it in the finals. MVPau vs Dwight for the finals MVP. Would be so good. So good

And let's not forget Shaq actually won a title without Kobe, you can argue 2 since Bean put up past prime Jeremy Lin numbers in the '00 Finals. Imagine the Bulls winning a ring with Jordan putting up 15 PPG on 37% shooting in a finals series... Inconceivable.

So if it wasn't because of Rodman then how come the Bull's didn't win 72 in 1991 , 92 , 93'??..when Jordan was at his absolute peak


again...MJ returned in 1995 and played 17 games before the playoffs ( he played 20 games in 1986 after a severe injury before returning) There was no rust in 1986...The Bull's couldn't compete with Orlando because they had no interior Defense and rebounding.

enter Rodman and the Bull's play great!...even better then 1991 - 93' when MJ was at his peak...Kindergarten math son.

I keep trying to explain to you in the simplest manner possible that the 2nd 3-peat Bulls roster was far deeper and talented than the first. The '94 team 'others' that lost in the second round was better than the '93 squad the GOAT brought to the promised land. That's why when MJ got to play with them at full strength (swapping Grant for old ass, oft-injured Rodman) they set the record books on fire.

Tell me why the Spurs didn't win 70 when Rodman joined them? They won 62 with him playing 40 something games, then 59 when he left. He joined the Lakers the season after a 35 year old Jordan won him his 5th ring. Why wasn't LA even remotely on pace to win 70, let alone 60?

You know like I and everyone else knows who was the driving force of those record setting teams and it wasn't Kim Jung Un's bff

2EZ...thumps chest

Ain't he adorable?

[AlphaWolf24]

Pippen 'nearly won a title' when he lost in the second round? Dwight nearly won a title when he led the Magic to the Finals, same with Shaq. That's what your teammates nearly winning the title without you actually looks like. And you just might get a refresher course again this season with 2 former Kobe scapegoats going at it in the finals. MVPau vs Dwight for the finals MVP. Would be so good. So good


Heck yeah they nearly won a title...Hollins made one of the worst calls in Playoff history...if Bull's get past the Knicks, Bull's would face an Indiana squad in witch they had a winning record against.

face it...everyone thought the Bulls would be irrelevant once MJ left, fact is they still were contenders with or without MJ.

MJ's impact on the win loss column is minimal.

And let's not forget Shaq actually won a title without Kobe, you can argue 2 since Bean put up past prime Jeremy Lin numbers in the '00 Finals. Imagine the Bulls winning a ring with Jordan putting up 15 PPG on 37% shooting in a finals series... Inconceivable.


Yes in the same context Kobe won 2 titles without Shaq.....meanwhile
Michael Jordan looked like TMAC's playoff record without PiPpen...seriously...

Jordan would never put up 15ppg in the finals....especially at 21 years old...MJ at 21 was losing in the sweet 16 ( on stacked teams) and guarding 6' PG from Alcorn st.




I keep trying to explain to you in the simplest manner possible that the 2nd 3-peat Bulls roster was far deeper and talented than the first. The '94 team 'others' that lost in the second round was better than the '93 squad the GOAT brought to the promised land. That's why when MJ got to play with them at full strength (swapping Grant for old ass, oft-injured Rodman) they set the record books on fire.

I know the 94' squad was decent...they replaced MJ with a CBA player , and picked up Toni and Kerr..they barely skipped a beat.

Everyone who watched the 90's bull's knows...that team was good...I was just pointing out how little MJ effected the win/loss column over an 82 game sample.

dude got replaced by a CBA player, a Euro and Kerr....and the defense improved..lol

Tell me why the Spurs didn't win 70 when Rodman joined them? They won 62 with him playing 40 something games, then 59 when he left. He joined the Lakers the season after a 35 year old Jordan won him his 5th ring. Why wasn't LA even remotely on pace to win 70, let alone 60?

because Pippen didn't come with him

You know like I and everyone else knows who was the driving force of those record setting teams and it wasn't Kim Jung Un's bff

yup...it was Madonna's BFF....



Ain't he adorable?

I know this...

[ImKobe]

Watching the interviews with the other Lakers' players, they are looking like walking corpses out there... their eyes are dead.

Kobe sucked the life out of them.

That was Golden State's doing. When you get embarrassed like they did on defense, there's nothing you can do about it.

[DonDadda59]

MJ's impact on the win loss column is minimal.

You know you don't even believe that nonsense.

Bulls were a .500 level team after Grant left and before Jordan returned. His first season back they won a record 72 games and went on another 3-peat run. But yeah, no impact there.

Meanwhile the Lakers won 56 games and made the second round the same season Jordan won 72... with Kobe putting up 7 PPG coming off the bench. The next season they won 61 and made the WCF with him again riding the bench, playing like a homeless man's Jamal Crawford. He missed a game in the '00 finals and was outplayed by Austin Croshere to the tune of 15 PPG on 37% FG... Lakers won the 'ship regardless. Overall, the Lakers were 29-6 (78% win, 64 win season pace without Kobe).

Even an old broken down Jordan turned a 19 win team into a playoff contender. Meanwhile as soon as Pau leaves, Kobe is on pace to turn a 27 win Lakers team into a 12 win Lakers team. Dat Impact.

Yes in the same context Kobe won 2 titles without Shaq.....meanwhile
Michael Jordan looked like TMAC's playoff record without PiPpen...seriously...

All that shows is that Kobe was a better second option than Pippen. He was able to get the Lakers rings with his 6 for 24 magic whereas Pip could only muster a second round bounce of a team that was an improved version of a championship squad. Jordan comes back to turn them from a .500 squad into an all time great 72 win champion.

Kobe without a great big is just a worse version of Iverson. This is the second stretch of his career where he's proven that. This guy had both Dwight and Pau on his squad and look at what they're doing while leading separate teams. Then watch him chuck the Lakers into obscurity and come back here to talk about his impact.

Jordan would never put up 15ppg in the finals....especially at 21 years old...MJ at 21 was losing in the sweet 16 ( on stacked teams) and guarding 6' PG from Alcorn st

Nigguh please

Jordan at 21 or any age >>>> poor man's Jamal Crawford. No way in hell the Bulls don't get blown out by 30 every game if Jordan put up 15 PPG on 37% in any finals series, get the f*ck outta here. Bean was just along for the ride on the Shaq express. John Paxson had better finals than that

dude got replaced by a CBA player, a Euro and Kerr....and the defense improved..lol

Then when he got to play with those new additions- 72 wins, #1 ranked offense, #1 ranked defense, championship, finals MVP. GOAT

because Pippen didn't come with him

Pippen went off to go from 2nd option to 3rd with Hakeem and Barkley... and they got bounced in the first round. Pip then ran off to play 4th option on the Blazers and proceeded to pull off one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA History.

But funny that Rodman seemingly only had that all time great impact playing next to Jordan. Played next to David Robinson the prior 2 seasons... negligible impact. Played next to Shaq and poor man's Jamal Crawford immediately after... nothing.

Funny how that worked.