Who can beat the 00-01 Lakers in a 7 game series

[bdreason]

'86 Celtics
'87 Lakers
'96 Bulls
'89 Pistons
'71 Bucks
'83 76ers

[huskerdu]

2014 Spurs. Had one of the best (if not THE best) point differential in NBA Playoff history. 2001 Lakers would be getting dizzy trying to guard all those guys.

You could tell me 2001 Lakers would win the series, but Spurs depth would push it to 7 games.

[tpols]

70% of Wade's shots were <3ft.
50% were <10ft.

67% for LeBron <3ft.
48% <10ft.

Yeah, but lets continue that narrative that they only scored on dunks and layups.

You mixed your signs up.

70% of Wades shots were > 3ft..
50% of his shots were > 10 feet


But yea.. 33% and 31% looks at the rim as part of your arsenal is a lot.

For reference, these are some other perimeter superstars numbers in 2012 playoffs.

Westbrook 29%
Chris Paul 15%.
Durant 23%.
Kobe 20%.
Rose 32%

As you can see Lebron James and Wayne Wade are two of the best slashers in the game.. compared to their peers. And Shaqs defense would be perfect for defending their style of basketball.

Doesn't matter, you idiot. Wade is not the only player on the perimeter defending Kobe. Also, why are you bringing up offensive numbers? Wade was an ELITE defender in '12 and he had runner up DPOY LeBron and Battier to back him up. Kobe was the better player, but it doesn't matter in this situation.

If you double Kobe either

A) Shaq has single coverage.. easy points.

or

B) there are two shooters open

Kobe averaged 6 apg working the triangle and shaq is one of the best/most skilled low post passers ever.

Youre so used to seeing players like paul george and roy hibbert struggle with miami's perimeter defense.. but Kobe and Shaq are both so much better, quicker, and more skilled with their passing and scoring execution.

Its hilarious that you think all three of those guys will be able to trap kobe without LA's shooters going off(Fisher had his best year of his career in 01 playoffs) or shaq getting monster dunks.

[ImKobe]

Come on, dude. You did watch the Heat, right? Their defense worked because of their movement. The trapping defense. The team was quick as ****. They way they moved and rotated on defense was just amazing.

I did, but their defenses didn't stop other players from going off on them

KD averaged 30 on above 50% shooting against em, Paul George gave them work in 2013..

Then you add in the fact that an old ass Tim Duncan looked like his prime self against them in the Finals, Roy Hibbert looked like prime Shaq. Imagine what prime Shaq would do to them, when an old ass Duncan dropped 25 pts in one half on em.

I'm not saying they couldn't slow down Kobe in any way, but there's no way in hell they'd stop Shaq and others. They can only key in on Kobe, but history has shown that the Lakers were able to win series/games with Kobe not being on his A-game. If Kobe had a tough time against the defenses in the Finals or they were giving him constant doubles, Shaq was there to get you 40 points on any given night.

And with all the attention you're giving Kobe with your defense, shooters will be wide open. Horry, Shaw and Fisher would make them pay, big time.

Best example I could give is the Portland series in 2000 or 2001 with Pippen defending Kobe...yes he was out of his prime, but the GOAT wing defender is still a very good defender at that age (certainly better than Battier), and Kobe completely cooked him that year (after Pippen played solid defense the year prior, limiting Kobe to only 43,9% shooting and him only putting up 20 points a game), putting up 25/4/8 on 48% shooting.

You can't put too many guys on Kobe or work to stop him exclusively. You have to encourage him to chuck up shots, because you don't want your defense to give up wide open 3s and you don't want Shaq taking more shots if you're the Miami Heat. It's not that simple. Miami was able to shut down both Parker & Manu for the NBA Finals, and other players rained 3s on them + Duncan went ham on em' and they should have lost, had the Spurs not choked in epic fashion.

[stalkerforlife]

Maybe the best Bulls team.

Maybe 86 Celtics.

After that, no one.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Modern Era?

'86 Celtics
'87 Lakers
'89 Pistons
'92 Bulls
'93 Bulls
'96 Bulls
'97 Bulls
2008 Celtics

[stalkerforlife]

Modern Era?

'86 Celtics
'87 Lakers
'89 Pistons
'92 Bulls
'93 Bulls
'96 Bulls
'97 Bulls
2008 Celtics

[aj1987]

But yea.. 33% and 31% looks at the rim as part of your arsenal is a lot.

For reference, these are some other perimeter superstars numbers in 2012 playoffs.

Westbrook 29%
Chris Paul 15%.
Durant 23%.
Kobe 20%.
Rose 32%

As you can see Lebron James and Wayne Wade are two of the best slashers in the game.. compared to their peers. And Shaqs defense would be perfect for defending their style of basketball.

Those guys are not even close to being as good as Wade and LeBron, when it comes to scoring at the rim. Lets also not pretend that good interior defense slowed down Wade/LeBron. Honestly, I still can't believe that your argument is that Shaq is going to shutdown Wade AND LeBron.

Yeah, just no. Westbrook has piss poor shot selection. KD is an AMAZING shooter, and CP3 is a midget PG. Rose is the only one who comes close when it comes and he shot the same number of times at the rim. Oh, and Rose was note even close to being the shooter that LeBron was.

Also, who's going to cover Bosh, if he's on the perimeter? Shaq, I'm assuming. Which Leaves the lane WIDE open.

If you double Kobe either

A) Shaq has single coverage.. easy points.

or

B) there are two shooters open

Kobe averaged 6 apg working the triangle and shaq is one of the best/most skilled low post passers ever.

Youre so used to seeing players like paul george and roy hibbert struggle with miami's perimeter defense.. but Kobe and Shaq are both so much better, quicker, and more skilled with their passing and scoring execution.

Its hilarious that you think all three of those guys will be able to trap kobe without LA's shooters going off(Fisher had his best year of his career in 01 playoffs) or shaq getting monster dunks.

You still don't get it, do you? From my previous posts:

Come on, dude. You did watch the Heat, right? Their defense worked because of their movement. The trapping defense. The team was quick as ****. They way they moved and rotated on defense was just amazing.

Same goes for the Heat, BTW. Once LeBron/Wade/Bosh are doubled, Chalmers, Miller, Battier, etc. are left alone for 3's.

You keep bringing up the 6 ( ) assists, but Miami has better passers in Wade and LeBron.

I did, but their defenses didn't stop other players from going off on them

KD averaged 30 on above 50% shooting against em, Paul George gave them work in 2013..

THAT WAS THE POINT. Let KD and those guys get theirs. Why do you think KD disappeared in the clutch when Miami's defense was focused on shutting him down? PG?

There's a reason why they didn't win against the Heat as well.

Pippen was garbage in '01.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I know you didn't see the vast majority of those teams being a young gun, but trust me, those teams could all beat the 2001 Lakers in a best of seven series. This myth that the 2001 Laker are unbeatable is absurd. If the 2001 Sixers managed to steal a game by being a gritty defensive unit, with a 5'11 lone gunman in AI on offense ... I'm sure those other teams could give LA troubles. I'm tempted even though they had a disappointing regular seson to throw in the 1995 Rockets as well.

[chazzy]

They're essentially Hibbert and George on steroids

[Genaro]

LOL at the Heat winning.
Lakers biggest strength(inside game) is actually Heat biggest weakness. And if double or triple Shaq, Lakers have the weapons to make you pay (and that particular playoffs they were hot from 3)
Their trapping defense works well because teams nowadays makes a lot of pick and rolls, triangle offense doesn't utilizes as much pick and rolls.

On the other end, you got Shaq clogging the lane and stopping the slashing game, Fox and Kobe checking Lebron and Wade and a very good rebounding team who would made the Heat trips be one and done.

Lakers in 5.

[tpols]

Those guys are not even close to being as good as Wade and LeBron, when it comes to scoring at the rim. Lets also not pretend that good interior defense slowed down Wade/LeBron. Honestly, I still can't believe that your argument is that Shaq is going to shutdown Wade AND LeBron.

I was listing them to show you that wade and lebron rely on driving lanes and rim looks more than anyone else.

Because, in the post I quoted, you were saying 'Wade and bron take 70% of their shots away from the rim' trying to downplay the fact that their percentages are very high.. But when compared to other superstars, they actually are.


And yes Shaq would make it very hard for wade and lebron to finish at the rim. Lebron has shown reluctance and softness for attacking hibbert.. Shaq would make him shit his pants. He would not attack him.

A simple 2-3 zone where shaq just mans the middle 2011 mavs style would make sure all the shooters are covered.. bron would get a lot of 3 pt looks but his paint game would be severely curtailed.

[ImKobe]

THAT WAS THE POINT. Let KD and those guys get theirs. Why do you think KD disappeared in the clutch when Miami's defense was focused on shutting him down? PG?

There's a reason why they didn't win against the Heat as well.

Pippen was garbage in '01.

Well, my point is that those teams were not all-time great teams. The Heat didn't go up against Phil Jackson, or Shaq, or Kobe, or Fisher, or Fox, or Horry, or Shaw.

The Pacers team were a tough out in 2013 with the series going 7 games (Pacers probably win if Lebron doesn't get a game-winning layup earlier in the series). George and Hibbert were a homeless man's version of Shaq & Kobe.

All I'm saying is that you can't focus your defense on shutting down Kobe, as others will make you pay. You want him to take those long 20-footers, that are much less efficient (in theory) than a wide open 3 or a Shaq FGA at the rim.

[aj1987]

I was listing them to show you that wade and lebron rely on driving lanes and rim looks more than anyone else.

Because, in the post I quoted, you were saying 'Wade and bron take 70% of their shots away from the rim' trying to downplay the fact that their percentages are very high compared to other superstars.


And yes Shaq would make it very hard for wade and lebron to finish at the rim. Lebron has shown reluctance and softness for attacking hibbert.. Shaq would make him shit his pants. He would not attack him.

A simple 2-3 zone where shaq just mans the middle 2011 mavs style would make sure all the shooters are covered.. bron would get a lot of 3 pt looks but his paint game would be severely curtailed.

Way to go, kid. Ignore the rest of my post.

Westbrook has piss poor shot selection. KD is an AMAZING shooter, and CP3 is a midget PG.

Those are not the kind of players who attack the rim frequently.

Again, you said, LeBron has shown "reluctance and softness for attacking hibbert". Yet, me managed to destroy the Pacers 3 years in a row. Including one where he got points off of solely attacking the rim.

It's not about "reluctance or softness". If that was the case, Kobe would be considered to be the softest player EVER, since all he does is chuck up midrange shots while throwing series' away. Is it always scared to attack the rim? Kobe knew his strengths and utilized them and adapted.

It's about realizing that there's a good defensive presence and taking high percentage shots. Picking your shots and not wasting possessions.

LOL @ Shaq shutting down Wade AND LeBron. As much as I love Shaq (top 5 GOAT), he's not doing that.

Well, my point is that those teams were not all-time great teams. The Heat didn't go up against Phil Jackson, or Shaq, or Kobe, or Fisher, or Fox, or Horry, or Shaw.

They just went against the MVP Rose Bulls with Thibs, KD/WB/JH/Ibaka Thunder, and the Pop/Duncan Spurs. Beat them all, BTW.

The Pacers team were a tough out in 2013 with the series going 7 games (Pacers probably win if Lebron doesn't get a game-winning layup earlier in the series). George and Hibbert were a homeless man's version of Shaq & Kobe.

Wade was injured and I still can't understand what happened to Bosh after '12. We're talking about the '12 Heat anyways though.

All I'm saying is that you can't focus your defense on shutting down Kobe, as others will make you pay. You want him to take those long 20-footers, that are much less efficient (in theory) than a wide open 3 or a Shaq FGA at the rim.

I'm saying let Shaq get his and shutdown everyone else (or at least try to).

[tpols]

Way to go, kid. Ignore the rest of my post.

Westbrook has piss poor shot selection. KD is an AMAZING shooter, and CP3 is a midget PG.

Those are not the kind of players who attack the rim frequently.
.

Yes Wade and LeBron are more of slashers than all of those guys. What exactly are you arguing? That's what I've been saying all along. They are more so at the rim players than their peers. A higher percentage of their looks come at the rim where they would see a better rim protector than they've ever faced before.


I'd be more scared of the 2012 thunder than the heat tbh because Shaq's presence would do very little to stop Durant going off. Who would shoot over and score at will on Rick fox. OKC also has Perkins and Ibaka two much bigger bodies than the heat have.. To throw at Shaq.