A PRIME Walton vs a PRIME Sabonis

[Uncle Drew]

I just don't have ANY evidence to support that.

No one does. At the time Sabonis really was at his peak, without injuries, most people didn't even know he existed. Guess he's just as mythical as Wilt was.

[SpanishACB]

You asked me, "based on what?"

I responded by what we KNOW.

Show us a peak Sabonis dominating someone of the calibre of a peak David Robinson.

Was Sabonis an outstanding NBA center? Yes, even a well past his peak Arvydas played well in his short NBA career. But there are those here who would have us believe that he was a Top-10 center of all-time. I just don't have ANY evidence to support that.

you need all this h2h and arbitrary bullshit to rate a player it's as if you cannot simply watch the game and understand it

go get some actual pre-injury Sabonis footage, now, regardless of this dominance stat you talk about, regardless of h2h and who he blocked and who he didn't, can't you realize the level, ability and overall game of the guy is only matched by the likes of Larry Bird and never seen in the C position?

sure, he was playing in the European competitions when he was healthy, which at the time was closer to the NBA than you most likely realize, but there weren't as many phisical specimens, either way, how that's stopping you from admiring a player of this caliber is amazing.

hating on sabonis doesn't do wilt any good, so i'm not sure what your goal is here

[LAZERUSS]

No one does. At the time Sabonis really was at his peak, without injuries, most people didn't even know he existed. Guess he's just as mythical as Wilt was.

We KNOW how dominant Chamberlain was.

Just take a look at the NBA RECORD BOOK. And yes, we have a TON of evidence of a prime Chamberlain just CRUSHING the best centers of his era, including Russell, Thurmond, Reed, and Bellamy. Even an OLD Wilt was outplaying centers like McAdoo and Lanier. And we have video footage of the '72 NBA-ABA All-Star game, in which a 36 year old Wilt was outplaying a young Gilmore.

[Uncle Drew]

We KNOW how dominant Chamberlain was.

Just take a look at the NBA RECORD BOOK. And yes, we have a TON of evidence of a prime Chamberlain just CRUSHING the best centers of his era, including Russell, Thurmond, Reed, and Bellamy. Even an OLD Wilt was outplaying centers like McAdoo and Lanier. And we have video footage of the '72 NBA-ABA All-Star game, in which a 36 year old Wilt was outplaying a young Gilmore.

Relax dude, I was just joking, no need to jump out of your panties bro.

[Rose]

Walton.

[bizil]

In the all around sense, Walton is as good of a center who has EVER PLAYED. He combined rebounding, scoring, passing, and defense better than any center. Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, and Robinson would round out my top five in the all around sense. I haven't seen enough of Sabonis in his prime on film for me to take him above Walton. But for Sabonis to be 7'3 and do the things he could do at a young age, I CERTAINLY don't think he was far off from Walton.

But once again, Sabonis was doing that in the Euroleague while Walton was doing it in the greatest basketball league of all time. So I gotta go Big Bill easily one of the ten greatest centers peak wise of all time. In many ways, he was like Duncan but ACTUALLY labeled a center as his primary position.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Never watched a prime sabonis, but judging how good an old (and presumably much more than when he was in his prime) Sabonis was in the NBA, probably Sabonis.

[robert de niro]

sabonis of course

[colts19]

I take Walton, just due to the fact that I have stated many time. There is no player that I enjoyed watching as much as Bill.

[iznogood]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUz3C0p-Yso

A young, skinny Robinson, at nowhere near his peak, outplayed what was probably a peak Sabonis.

BTW, Robinson was CLEARLY more athletic.

No way Robinson outplayed Sabonis. I thought they were pretty evenly matched. 2 very different players though. Robinson is clearly more athletic and a miss match for Sabonis in terms of quickness. Sabonis did however play after a bad injury which made him look pretty slow, but even fully healthy he wasn't the athlete Robinson was. He was, however, more skilled and much smarter at the time and in my opinion a better player.

Also I think they didn't go enough one against another to suggest one outplayed the other. The Soviets run their game through high post and didn't even run post ups for Sabonis the way team USA did for Robinson and Reed.

Robinson was the more active player of the two in terms of attacking the basket, but didn't score much directly against Sabonis. He did some damage in the first half, but he only made one left hook in the post against Sabonis. He missed one Sabonis contested and then he also made one of the free throw jumpers Sabonis let him take all game (took only 2 though). Robinson did block Sabonis' hook though and got to the line out of a post up situation once. He didn't even play much in the second half because he was in foul trouble. He only scored 3 points in the second half. The first came of the free throw line 7 minutes before the game ended. He scored the other after offensive rebound when Sabonis was completely exhausted and couldn't rebound anymore and Robinson came straight of the bench.

Sabonis on the other hand displayed elite playmaking, passing and rebounding. He was also the only Soviet player who could somehow deal with athleticism of Reed and Robinson and also played heavy minutes. He blocked a great amount of shots as well. I think he blocked more shots than the Whole US team combined (or at least very close).

The most important in my opinion, Sabonis was huge in securing the victory for his team. He grabbed key rebounds and made a couple of great passes that allowed for easy USSR baskets. He also contested Majerle's shot which would've tied the game and tipped it to one of his team mates for a rebound and also made a very nice inside pass to Rimas Kurtinaitis that led to 2 free throws.

You can see how important Sabonis' rim protection was when he was in foul trouble at the end of the game and USA almost makes a comeback. One could watch the end of the game and say Sabonis was awful on defense, but in my opinion this is a showcase of how important he really was to his team and how high his basketball IQ was. Both gassed and in foul trouble he made a couple of defensive plays that won them the game.

[DatAsh]

I'll take the guy who was better than Kareem at his absolute peak. Only Wilt, Shaq, and Jordan are definitively better at their peaks. Sabonis was really good though, but still 2-3 tiers below a peak Walton.

[oarabbus]

You asked me, "based on what?"

I responded by what we KNOW.

Show us a peak Sabonis dominating someone of the calibre of a peak David Robinson.

Was Sabonis an outstanding NBA center? Yes, even a well past his peak Arvydas played well in his short NBA career. But there are those here who would have us believe that he was a Top-10 center of all-time. I just don't have ANY evidence to support that.

When we're talking about Wilt, there's specific excuses to get Wilt off the hook for EVERY single postseason failure. But for Sabonis, he simply just wasn't that good past his prime

[quote]

[iznogood]

When we're talking about Wilt, there's specific excuses to get Wilt off the hook for EVERY single postseason failure. But for Sabonis, he simply just wasn't that good past his prime





Anyway, Sabonis was one awesome bastard.





Boss

Excellent!

Sabonis must've been one of the most hated basketball players ever in Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N1fbNAPeB4
Here the Croatian commentator calls him "well known scumbag, enemy of the sport" numerous times. When he is out of the game and sits on the bench the commentator also notes that Sabonis shouldn't even be allowed in the arena, not only on the court.

I used to hate Sabonis so much for shitting on my team over and over. But he was an amazing player.

[Sakkreth]

Walton was special, but come on...

[Psileas]

Excellent!

Sabonis must've been one of the most hated basketball players ever in Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N1fbNAPeB4
Here the Croatian commentator calls him "well known scumbag, enemy of the sport" numerous times. When he is out of the game and sits on the bench the commentator also notes that Sabonis shouldn't even be allowed in the arena, not only on the court.

I used to hate Sabonis so much for shitting on my team over and over. But he was an amazing player.

In Croatia, no doubt. After plays like this, every opposing player becomes hated. In Europe, though, I think that's exaggerated, I don't remember Sabonis ever being hated all over the continent for any reason.