Jalen Rose top 10 ever

[kshutts1]

Wilt led the league in FGA by over 1,000 more shots than the next guy..

league average today is 100 points per game, league average in 1962 was 119 ppg




would you consider 38/19/5 historic?

32/19/3?

31/19/4?

31/13/11?

all of these stat lines plus Wilt's happened in 1962

Wilt was taking 16 more shots per game than any of these guys listed besides Baylor who was averaging 38 points on 33 shots.

By "1962" are you referring to Wilt's 50/26 or 45/24 lines? Because, well, the others pale in comparison.

Again, show "wilt-like stats" being achieved by ANYONE else, pace or not. I'll wait.

Fact is, Wilt was so often so far ahead of everyone else, that even if pace is valid (and of course it is), pace along did not make Wilt. Wilt made himself, as evidenced by blowing out everyone else that benefited from pace.

[kshutts1]

I looked up Elgin's 38/19 line to see which season you were talking about.

38/19 is totally the same as 50/26. You're right. It's not like one is 133%/145% of the other. Not at all.

[MastaKilla]

I looked up Elgin's 38/19 line to see which season you were talking about.

38/19 is totally the same as 50/26. You're right. It's not like one is 133%/145% of the other. Not at all.

what are you talking about?

you asked for other historic "Wilt Like seasons" from the same time and I give you a list of guys averaging 30+/19 and the only triple double season in history (without having to round up) and you act like it's nothing?

[kshutts1]

what are you talking about?

you asked for other historic "Wilt Like seasons" from the same time and I give you a list of guys averaging 30+/19 and the only triple double season in history (without having to round up) and you act like it's nothing?

It's nowhere near Wilt, that's for sure.

[MastaKilla]

i already showed you the 19ppg differential in pace, i already showed you that Wilt took 1,000+ more shots than anybody else that season

I already showed you a guy who had 4 straight years of averaging a triple double.

Oscar averaging 30+/10/10 for 4 straight years doesn't "compare" to Wilt, then okay you're just a delusional stan

[kshutts1]

My sole argument is not for any individual, but rather to debunk the "pace" factor.

Pace plays a factor with the average numbers of the league as a whole. However, pace benefits every player equally. So when one, or 5, players are SO FAR AHEAD of everyone else? Don't say "pace". That's when you say "greatness".

If "pace" is the sole reason for Oscar's triple doubles, show me borderline-all-star players nearing those numbers. Because it's "pace" and not "greatness".
If "pace" is the sole reason for Wilt to average 50ppg, then show me someone else averaging 50ppg, or anywhere near it. Because it's "pace" that affects scoring, and not greatness".

Fact is, it's about relative numbers. Oscar's, Wilt's, and Elgin's numbers are higher than their peers, by a SIGNIFICANT margin, because they were BETTER than their peers by a significant margin.

I don't remember the exact number, but Wilt has the two (or three?) highest scoring seasons RELATIVE to his competitor's PPG, EVER. Not Jordan. Not Kareem. Wilt.

Stop using pace. Stop using "weak era". Just look at relative numbers. And you will be happier. The hate will stop. You will see the light.

[MastaKilla]

It's nowhere near Wilt, that's for sure.

ok buddy..

[MastaKilla]

On average teams took 8,619 shots for the entire season in 1962 over an 80 game season

on average teams took 6,806 shots for the entire season in 2014 over an 82 game season

[Solefade]

what's Bill Simmon's top 10 of all time?

[bizil]

My sole argument is not for any individual, but rather to debunk the "pace" factor.

Pace plays a factor with the average numbers of the league as a whole. However, pace benefits every player equally. So when one, or 5, players are SO FAR AHEAD of everyone else? Don't say "pace". That's when you say "greatness".

If "pace" is the sole reason for Oscar's triple doubles, show me borderline-all-star players nearing those numbers. Because it's "pace" and not "greatness".
If "pace" is the sole reason for Wilt to average 50ppg, then show me someone else averaging 50ppg, or anywhere near it. Because it's "pace" that affects scoring, and not greatness".

Fact is, it's about relative numbers. Oscar's, Wilt's, and Elgin's numbers are higher than their peers, by a SIGNIFICANT margin, because they were BETTER than their peers by a significant margin.

I don't remember the exact number, but Wilt has the two (or three?) highest scoring seasons RELATIVE to his competitor's PPG, EVER. Not Jordan. Not Kareem. Wilt.

Stop using pace. Stop using "weak era". Just look at relative numbers. And you will be happier. The hate will stop. You will see the light.

Excellent point! If scoring 50 points a night was SO EASY, EVERYBODY would have been doing it. If averaging a triple double like Big O in a season was easy, then EVERYBODY would have been doing it. Same with Elgin and what he did.

If anything, ALL THREE OF THEM were ahead of their time. They were the blueprint for the dominant two way all around big man, the big PG who was a triple double threat and could play three positions, and the freak athlete perimeter scoring machine. U can't minimize their impact and say pace this and pace that. Wilt, Big O, Elgin, and West would be superstars in any era flat out. THEY WERE SO AHEAD of their time that of course their numbers would come down if they were at their peaks in the 1980's and later.

But I think Wilt was STILL capable of getting 35 points and 15-18 boards per game in a season in the 80's, 90's or now. He just wouldn't be averaging 50 points. I think Big O could come close to a triple double season like MJ, Bron, or Magic did. And I think Elgin would be a freak athlete scoring machine at the SF on par with Dr. J, Nique, Bron, etc.

[BlazerRed]

I am OK with this.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt led the league in FGA by over 1,000 more shots than the next guy..

league average today is 100 points per game, league average in 1962 was 119 ppg




would you consider 38/19/5 historic?

32/19/3?

31/19/4?

31/13/11?

all of these stat lines plus Wilt's happened in 1962

Wilt was taking 16 more shots per game than any of these guys listed besides Baylor who was averaging 38 points on 33 shots.

If you look up BB-Reference, Baylor's '62 season is NOT among the league leaders.


Baylor's 38 ppg season came in only 48 of the NBA's 80 games. Keep in mind that in the early 60's, teams were OFTEN playing three games in three nights.

If you are going to use a small sample like that as some kind of slap at Chamberlain's dominance...then how about this...

In Wilt's 61-62 season, he had TWO separate streaks of 14 games in which he averaged 53 and 54 ppg. Later in that season, he had a run of five straight games in which he averaged...get this... 70.2 ppg.

Furthermore, in his first 16 games of the very next season, he was averaging 53 ppg. That is an example of 49 games, all sandwiched within a short span, in which Chamberlain averaged about 55 ppg.

So, if you were to include Baylor's 38 ppg, which again was not a FULLTIME season, then I would argue that Chamberlain's run of 55 pg qualifies, as well.

Wilt actually won the '61-62 scoring mark by a +18.8 ppg margin over Walt Bellamy.

If you want a FULL season from Baylor, he had seasons of 34.8 ppg and 34.0 ppg in '61 and '63. BTW, in his '63 season, Chamberlain again ran away with the scoring title, at 44.8 ppg to Baylor's 34.0 ppg.

The highest "non-Wilt" scoring average, IN the Wilt-era, was Rick Barry's 35.6 ppg in '66-67. BTW, Barry himself admitted that he (Barry) only won the scoring the title that year, simply because Wilt didn't want it.


Baylor was the closest to Wilt in scoring 60+ point games IN the Wilt era, with FOUR. Jerry West added the ONLY other one in the Wilt era, that was not put up by Chamberlain. How about Wilt, himself? 32 (yes, 32!)

Subtract Wilt from the Wilt-era, and the highest scoring season was 35.6 ppg, with the next best marks being 34.8 ppg, 34.8 ppg, and 34.0 ppg. After that it declines to Bellamy's 31.6 ppg. Those HIGH scoring seasons were equalled, or nearly equalled, in the 70's, 80's, 90's, and 00's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Pretty good ... LeBron should be #10 though. Over both Oscar, and Hakeem.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Terrible list. Shaq way too low. Shaq is a top 5 GOAT. Give me a good reason why Wilt should be higher than Shaq? Similar players, Shaq just won more and was better.

Kobe also too high. Kobe is in the 10-15 range. LeBron should be top 10. Easily better than Oscar prime for prime, more career accomplishments, and longevity really isn't an issue - LeBron's 12 all star caliber seasons to Oscar's 11.

[Timmy D for MVP]

I don't love Tim ahead of Wilt, but I can understand why he might do that.

But I really don't like Kobe over Shaq or Hakeem. Career wise maybe, and maybe that's how he's ranking it, but for me Kobe has to be 10 behind those big guys.

Completely agree with the top 4 though.