Is Derrick Rose even a Top 10 PG anymore?

[SillyRabbit]

Westbrook
Curry
Paul
Lillard
Lowry
Wall
Dragic
Conley
Teague
Lawson

That's 10 right there who are absolutely better than him.

Rondo
Irving
Jennings
Walker

All have cases for being better than him this season as well.

What happened to this guy? Is his injury still bugging him? Is it a mental thing?

[brooks_thompson]

It is both physical and mental, and no he has not been a top ten point guard this season.

In the 4th quarter his 'drives per game' dramatically ramps up, so he's trying to a) pace himself, b) prevent further injury unless it's crunch time, c) get himself re-conditioned. The answer is d) all of the above.

Looking for the exact drive stat, I found this Sport VU PDF and found it interesting, even if outdated by a couple years.

http://www.stats.com/pdfs/NBA_Inside...ngToBasket.pdf

[Top Gun]

At his peak he's better than nearly all of them. He's still recovering from injuries and he's doing it slowly which is smart. I believe he will get back to his best and destroy some of those guys mentioned.

[dunksby]

I'd wait and see how he does in the postseason to judge him, he is a former MVP he has earned that much.

[Richesly]

He isn't a top ten by the way he played vs Atlanta a couple days ago.

[FPJ]

Rondo? Really?

[beastee]

He isn't a top ten by the way he played vs Atlanta a couple days ago.

Really dude? He outplayed Teague by a decent amount. His 3's alone almost brought the Bulls back. He had 23 and 10 and 8. If not for a couple half court heaves the dude shot about 48%. But the only thing that really matters is the playoffs and if he is in attack mode, watch out.

[j3lademaster]

He isn't a top ten by the way he played vs Atlanta a couple days ago.

If we're going by that game and Rose isn't top 10 then neither is Teague. Rose clearly outplayed him.

[Kblaze8855]

Well...since you are basically asking if hes outplayed all those guys in the first couple months after missing 2 years...no. But asking if hes "even" better than a gang of HOF talents and potential all stars right out the gate coming off what hes been through seems a bit odd.

Michael Jordan was a hell of a lot better than Derrick Rose....missed less time in 94 and early 95 than Rose....and came back healthy not trying to feel his way back from two massive injuries...

He shot worse in the 17 games he played that regular season than Derrick Rose has shot this season. He picked it up soon and was far better in the playoffs...but hes MJ. And he was healthy the entire 2 years in question...not in rehab. And even he came back shooting 41% for a month and change.

Kobe looked washed up last year in his brief return and most of this year too and he wasnt out as long as Rose. Hes old for sure...but he was HOF level at 34 approaching 35 in 2013....so its not like he was ass before missing time due to age. He just lost a lot while out.

Bernard King suffered a similar level of injury to Rose in his prime. He goes from 33ppg to 17 when he gets back for a full season. 60 points on christmas, 40ppg vs the Pistons, 33ppg for a year, runner up in MVP voting Brooklyn Broiler goes from most unstoppable scorer in the league to a good scoring part time starter who put up 10ppg by the end of the next season coming off the bench. He wasnt nearly the real Bernard King for 4 ****ing years....

Chris Webber got hurt in the playoffs...missed most of one season right in his prime...he was a 23/11/5 superstar. Comes back having missed just a few months...18/8 on 41% shooting over 23 games with a decent but not Webber like post season. Goes from top of his game borderline MVP level player to Pejas washed up sidekick at 29 who they shipped out for Kenny Thomas and Big Nasty Corliss.

Rose is at 18/5/3 in less than 30 minutes a game. Not one other person in 70 years has done that. Now...dont take that to mean hes having an epic season...he isnt...or that this will continue all year...it wont...his minutes will go up. What im saying is....hes been fairly productive for limited minutes coming off two catastrophic injuries as a player who's entire game is predicated on explosiveness and confidence.

Hes rounding into form. It will not happen overnight.

That is "What happened to this guy".

Its what happens to most players in such a situation.

[nathanjizzle]

dumb thread, there is only 1 pg that is really better than rose right now. lowry is 3-7 the last ten games, must be a really good player.

[brooks_thompson]

Great post and examples KBlaze.

Speaking of Bernard King, his 30 for 30 with Grunfeld is great. Watching his sadness and rage as he recounts getting beaten...man.


Edit: well, well. The doc: http://youtu.be/32Yq-USuO_g

[DMAVS41]

Well...since you are basically asking if hes outplayed all those guys in the first couple months after missing 2 years...no. But asking if hes "even" better than a gang of HOF talents and potential all stars right out the gate coming off what hes been through seems a bit odd.

Michael Jordan was a hell of a lot better than Derrick Rose....missed less time in 94 and early 95 than Rose....and came back healthy not trying to feel his way back from two massive injuries...

He shot worse in the 17 games if played that regular season than Derrick Rose has shot this season. He picked it up soon and was far better in the playoffs...but hes MJ. And he was healthy the entire 2 years in question...not in rehab. And even he came back shooting 41% for a month and change.

Kobe looked washed up last year in his brief return and most of this year too and he wasnt out as long as Rose. Hes old for sure...but he was HOF level at 34 approaching 35 in 2013....so its not like he was ass before missing time due to age. He just lost a lot while out.

Bernard King suffered a similar level of injury to Rose in his prime. He goes from 33ppg to 17 when he gets back for a full season. 60 points on christmas, 40ppg vs the Pistons, 33ppg for a year, runner up in MVP voting Brooklyn Broiler goes from most unstoppable scorer in the league to a good scoring part time starter who put up 10ppg by the end of the next season coming off the bench. He wasnt nearly the real Bernard King for 4 ****ing years....

Chris Webber got hurt in the playoffs...missed most of one season right in his prime...he was a 23/11/5 superstar. Comes back having missed just a few months...18/8 on 41% shooting over 23 games with a decent but not Webber like post season. Goes from top of his game borderline MVP level player to Pejas washed up sidekick at 29 who they shipped out for Kenny Thomas and Big Nasty Corliss.

Rose is at 18/5/3 in less than 30 minutes a game. Not one other person in 70 years has done that. Now...dont take that to mean hes having an epic season...he isnt...or that this will continue all year...it wont...his minutes will go up. What im saying is....hes been fairly productive for limited minutes coming off two catastrophic injuries as a player who's entire game is predicated on explosiveness and confidence.

Hes rounding into form. It will not happen overnight.

That is "What happened to this guy".

Its what happens to most players in such a situation.

Nah...

Nique came back after the achilles and was a beast for 93 and 94...and then dipped down to current Rose type production.

Not sure about the 70 years thing, but even that is misleading as 18/5/3 50% TS is just not anything to even note. I'd imagine there are many guys in the league this year, let alone in 70 years, that are more productive than that at around 30 minutes per game.

Dirk, for example, is at 19/6/2 57% TS in the same amount of minutes Rose plays this year.

Manu was at 17/4/5 58% TS in 2011.

So just nothing to note really.

[Papaya Petee]

dumb thread, there is only 1 pg that is really better than rose right now. lowry is 3-7 the last ten games, must be a really good player.

No, not a dumb thread, but your reply sure is dumb.

Lets hear your case for Rose> Westbrook, Lowry, Wall, Lillard, Curry, Cp3, Teague, Irving, or Ellis right now.

I don't want to hear that he won an MVP in 2011. I want to know RIGHT now. I'll wait.

Rose is right about that 9-11 range for PGs right now.

[Kblaze8855]

[Already said]Now...dont take that to mean hes having an epic season...he isnt...or that this will continue all year...it wont...his minutes will go up. What im saying is....hes been fairly productive for limited minutes coming off two catastrophic injuries as a player who's entire game is predicated on explosiveness and confidence. [/Already said]

[DMAVS41]

Why say nobody in 70 years has done something if you don't think anything of it?

It's misleading and agenda driven. Obvious is obvious.

Just seems odd not to mention Nique in an objective take on Rose post injury...while also talking about him doing something nobody has done in 70 years when what he's doing is truly nothing of note as you even later admit.