Who's Performance as a 2nd Option was Worse?

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wouldn't of even went the distance in 04 if Kobe doesn't hit that game winner. It wasn't as bad as 2011 Lebron imo.

Yea, his game 2 performance is what puts it over LeBron's. And the Lakers had Karl Malone's injury to deal with. Miami was healthy, and clicking. They choked away a huge late game 2 lead. Won game 3 convincingly, which would've had them up 3-0. And Wade was the best player for Miami from the second half of game 1 forward. I prefer even if selfish, and cocky ... with stupid shot selection, Kobe's aggressiveness to LeBron's complete lack of trying.

[Prometheus]

Agreed. And unfortunately that stubborn, over confident mentality persists until this day to be honest. His gift, and curse. They're opposite ends of the spectrum BTW. Kobe's cocky, and forces the issue. LeBron's insecure, and gets way too passive.

Samurai keepin it 100 as always. I've said it before and I'll say it again: LeBron is a coward, but Kobe is a fool.

Wouldn't of even went the distance in 04 if Kobe doesn't hit that game winner. It wasn't as bad as 2011 Lebron imo.

You know, I say it should be "right there" with it, but I agree with you. LeBron was still worse. A few key differences:

Kobe was still playing the same role he always played. The defense was dictating that he should have radically changed his approach for a week or two. LeBron meanwhile radically changed his own approach for seemingly no reason.

As you said, Kobe saved game two for them. It's crazy to think that that Lakers team was THAT CLOSE to being swept by those Pistons. LeBron however generated zero key contributions in crunch time.

Most importantly, the Lakers still would have lost. If LeBron had played to his potential, there's a very strong chance that Miami would have won that series.

Finally, while both are shameful, in the end I think it is better to be a fool than a coward.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Samurai keepin it 100 as always. I've said it before and I'll say it again: LeBron is a coward, but Kobe is a fool.

Not speaking on overall quality as players, strictly mentality speaking ... I mean besides MJ being better than both, but that's what both Jordan and Wade have over both of them. Also not coincidental as to why that makes both of them better playoff, and big game players.

Look how Kobe struggled with Prince on him, playing into their hands, forcing contested hero jumpers with a hand on his face.

What did sophomore Wade do the very next season with the SAME guy guarding him, and in essence the same team defense?

He cut up Detroit's defense off the dribble like a surgeon, destroying them from the inside out. He looked like Dexter out there the way he knifed through the lane to attack a team with kind of a lack of size at the rim.

Wade compromised that entire team by getting into the teeth of the defense. Where as Kobe took the fragile way out and launched jumpers near exclusively.

[HOoopCityJones]

I still think Karl was the key to that series. That shit still feels like the one that got away. Count that Fisher was overall better for us than Payton that year and you just have a very odd season.

[Prometheus]

Not speaking on overall quality as players, strictly mentality speaking ... I mean besides MJ being better than both, but that's what both Jordan and Wade have over both of them. Also not coincidental as to why that makes both of them better playoff, and big game players.

Look how Kobe struggled with Prince on him, playing into their hands, forcing contested hero jumpers with a hand on his face.

What did sophomore Wade do the very next season with the SAME guy guarding him, and in essence the same team defense?

He cut up Detroit's defense off the dribble like a surgeon, destroying them from the inside out. He looked like Dexter out there the way he knifed through the lane to attack a team with kind of a lack of size at the rim.

Wade compromised that entire team by getting into the teeth of the defense. Where as Kobe took the fragile way out and launched jumpers near exclusively.

I agree with this Kobe/Wade juxtaposition thoroughly, but you really can't call Wade a superior playoff performer at this point. He had a brilliant run, there's no denying that. But when you look back over their entire careers thus far, LeBron has been better than Wade in the playoffs by FAR. So has Kobe. If it's because of his knees, it's because of his knees. But it is what it is.

I do think Wade has an excellent mentality though. Always have. He honestly just seems to be a more mature, self-realized man than either Kobe or LeBron.

[HOoopCityJones]

I agree with this Kobe/Wade juxtaposition thoroughly, but you really can't call Wade a superior playoff performer at this point. He had a brilliant run, there's no denying that. But when you look back over their entire careers thus far, LeBron has been better than Wade in the playoffs by FAR. So has Kobe. If it's because of his knees, it's because of his knees. But it is what it is.

I do think Wade has an excellent mentality though. Always have. He honestly just seems to be a more mature, self-realized man than either Kobe or LeBron.

I used to feel the same about Melo. Very comfortable with who he is as a player , but for whatever reason he can't seem to get over that hump.

[Prometheus]

I still think Karl was the key to that series. That shit still feels like the one that got away. Count that Fisher was overall better for us than Payton that year and you just have a very odd season.

Don't let it bug you - that shit is not the one that got away. Kobe could have helped make it more competitive, but Detroit was gonna whoop that ass anyway.

[Prometheus]

I used to feel the same about Melo. Very comfortable with who he is as a player , but for whatever reason he can't seem to get over that hump.

The problem with Carmelo isn't his mentality, it's just that he's not very bright. You can reflect and grow if you realize you have a character flaw, but you can't fix stupid.

[HOoopCityJones]

Don't let it bug you - that shit is not the one that got away. Kobe could have helped make it more competitive, but Detroit was gonna whoop that ass anyway.

Yea, everything happens for a reason. That shit doesn't flame out in 04, and we probably wouldn't of gotten the great run of Kobe and Gasol a few years later.

Underrated duo right now, they definitely should be mentioned more in the duo discussions.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2008 Finals should've been Kobe's crowning moment to define his legacy.

He had an incredible season. Finally seemed mature, and let the game come to him. A responsible leader where his individual greatness synced with his leadership. Carried the same dead beat roster from 2006, and 2007 to a top three seed in the West before they stole Gasol from Memphis.

That collapse in game 4 v.s. Boston, which eventually led to the entire team giving up in the Finals is the real one that got away.

If they hold onto that huge lead to win that game the entire series is different confidence wise for the Lakers. Kobe wasn't playing good or great, but decent enough to if just with a bit of help win the series.

The basketball gods gave him a chance to redeem himself in 2010 game 7. And that ended awkwardly too, even in victory.

[SouBeachTalents]

I still think Karl was the key to that series. That shit still feels like the one that got away. Count that Fisher was overall better for us than Payton that year and you just have a very odd season.

I would think '08 would feel a lot more like that than '04 would. The Lakers were lucky not to get swept in '04, in '08 they had a stranglehold on Game 4 to tie the series at 2-2 before their monumental collapse

[HOoopCityJones]

The problem with Carmelo isn't his mentality, it's just that he's not very bright. You can reflect and grow if you realize you have a character flaw, but you can't fix stupid.

True that.

Can you imagine if Carmelo just waited for his contract to expire and signed with the Knicks when they had the same Team they traded for him?

[HOoopCityJones]

2008 Finals should've been Kobe's crowning moment to define his legacy.

He had an incredible season. Finally seemed mature, and let the game come to him. A responsible leader where his individual greatness synced with his leadership. Carried the same dead beat roster from 2006, and 2007 to a top three seed in the West before they stole Gasol from Memphis.

That collapse in game 4 v.s. Boston, which eventually led to the entire team giving up in the Finals is the real one that got away.

If they hold onto that huge lead to win that game the entire series is different confidence wise for the Lakers. Kobe wasn't playing good or great, but decent enough to if just with a bit of help win the series.

The basketball gods gave him a chance to redeem himself in 2010 game 7. And that ended awkwardly too, even in victory.

I would think '08 would feel a lot more like that than '04 would. The Lakers were lucky not to get swept in '04, in '08 they had a stranglehold on Game 4 to tie the series at 2-2 before their monumental collapse

Don't even get me started ya'll.


I need a blunt, smh.

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ and LeBron have had the perfect season. MVP, Championship, Finals MVP, w/ great Finals ... hell Gold Medal. It barely alluded Kobe. 2008 was that career perfect season.

[Prometheus]

Don't even get me started ya'll.


I need a blunt, smh.

You'll just get high and think about it more. You'll look up video of game four and imagine how all these little moments could have gone differently. Our imaginations run wild when we're stoned, you're better off getting drunk.