Better Case For GOAT? Wilt Chamberlain or KAJ

[dankok8]

While there were games that an older Wilt held Kareem down and a few where he even actually outplayed him we know there are plenty of games where Kareem just annihilated Wilt. Chamberlain fans conveniently ignore those games to further their agenda. Truth is Kareem was easily the better player in their H2H's and in general while they were in the league together. However I'd be the first to say that their match-ups aren't really all that informative taking the age difference into account. Quite simply we'll never know how prime Wilt vs. prime Kareem would turn out. We just don't know...

With that being said even if Wilt was the more individually dominant player in his prime (in the playoffs he wasn't), I'd pick a guy that was more of a winner. Kareem took his team higher. Even though the media and the fans never liked him, Kareem's aloof personality (as opposed to Wilt's ego and narcissism) helped him. Kareem didn't give a shit what people said. He played his game, his skyhook was an effective clutch weapon, he could hit free throws, he never played for stats as far as we know...

And I always chuckle when Wilt fans talk about their favorite player's bad luck with teammates etc. but ignore injuries that Kareem's teams suffered in 1972, 1974, 1977, 1981, and 1989. Yes Wilt was "within an eyelash" of winning 4-5 more rings but so was Kareem. Wilt could have retired with 5-6 but Kareem could have retired with 10-11. Somehow what-ifs are only justified with Wilt!!

[julizaver]

While there were games that an older Wilt held Kareem down and a few where he even actually outplayed him we know there are plenty of games where Kareem just annihilated Wilt. Chamberlain fans conveniently ignore those games to further their agenda. Truth is Kareem was easily the better player in their H2H's and in general while they were in the league together. However I'd be the first to say that their match-ups aren't really all that informative taking the age difference into account. Quite simply we'll never know how prime Wilt vs. prime Kareem would turn out. We just don't know...

With that being said even if Wilt was the more individually dominant player in his prime (in the playoffs he wasn't), I'd pick a guy that was more of a winner. Kareem took his team higher. Even though the media and the fans never liked him, Kareem's aloof personality (as opposed to Wilt's ego and narcissism) helped him. Kareem didn't give a shit what people said. He played his game, his skyhook was an effective clutch weapon, he could hit free throws, he never played for stats as far as we know...

And I always chuckle when Wilt fans talk about their favorite player's bad luck with teammates etc. but ignore injuries that Kareem's teams suffered in 1972, 1974, 1977, 1981, and 1989. Yes Wilt was "within an eyelash" of winning 4-5 more rings but so was Kareem. Wilt could have retired with 5-6 but Kareem could have retired with 10-11. Somehow what-ifs are only justified with Wilt!!

First of all I used the Russell standard to show how I could downplay Kareem performances in 1971-72 season and using moder ISH logic he could be seen as loser and choker, losing most of the games, the series and bein outplayed in the decisive moments.

From 1970-71 season Kareem was the best player in the league and I am not going to argue with that fact. One could argue that Kareem was the best player in the league even after the first half of his rookie season.
Yes there are games where Kareem outplayed badly Wilt and it is something which could be expected at that time and their respective career stages.

We'll never know how prime Wilt vs. prime Kareem would turn out. We just don't know...

Probably better ...

And how would 36 years old Kareem vs 36 years old Wilt turn out ?

And how would 25 years old Wilt vs 36 years old Kareem turn out ?


To be a winner you need that luck, Russell have it from beginning in NBA, Jordan for example spend some of his prime in the shadow of Pistons, but it was not because he was not a winner or the best player in the league, he was just playing for the weaker team. This is. Kareem's UCLA team were champions before he joined them and after he left them.

[julizaver]

And I always chuckle when Wilt fans talk about their favorite player's bad luck with teammates etc. but ignore injuries that Kareem's teams suffered in 1972, 1974, 1977, 1981, and 1989. Yes Wilt was "within an eyelash" of winning 4-5 more rings but so was Kareem. Wilt could have retired with 5-6 but Kareem could have retired with 10-11. Somehow what-ifs are only justified with Wilt!!

I am not one of them and I always accept the facts. Bad luck, injuries to teamates is not rare thing to the team sports.
Both have great careers, had their legacy.

It is between how you evaluate greatnest and criteria used.

[3ball]

quick question: does wilt's 0.325 WS/48 number in 1964 (the highest i've ever seen), include the 6 to 15 blocks per game that he got, or at least some sort of assumption for it?

also, on wilt's championship team of 1967, did he have anyone of the caliber of Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

quick question: does wilt's 0.325 WS/48 number in 1964 (the highest i've ever seen), include the 6 to 15 blocks per game that he got, or at least some sort of assumption for it?

no. i dont believe so. it also doesn't include steals or turnovers i believe.

[3ball]

no. i dont believe so. it also doesn't include steals or turnovers i believe.

ok, cool.

i also find it interesting that kareem's best year statistically was 1972 when he got 35 PPG and 18 RPG.

we only have to go back 7 years to 1965 to find a season when Wilt did significantly better, to the tune of 39 PPG and 24 RPG... i don't think the game changed between 1965 and 1972..

and Wilt's six seasons before 1965 all destroy Kareem's best by even wider margins... like, put a prime Kareem back in 1962, and he doesn't get anywhere near 50 PPG and 27 RPG.

[navy]

ok, cool.

i also find it interesting that kareem's best year statistically was 1972 when he got 35 PPG and 18 RPG.

we only have to go back 7 years to 1965 to find a season when Wilt did significantly better, to the tune of 39 PPG and 24 RPG... i don't think the game changed between 1965 and 1972..

and Wilt's six seasons before 1965 all destroy Kareem's best by even wider margins... like, put a prime Kareem back in 1962, and he doesn't get 50 PPG and 27 RPG.

Wilt was blatantly stat padding in his "best seasons". Unprecedented levels. I think Kareem could do similar given the same circumstances. In fact, I dont even know if Wilt would call those his best seasons.

[3ball]

Wilt was blatantly stat padding in his "best seasons". Unprecedented levels.

wow, that's a great argument to make anytime a guy who i want to be worse has the way higher stats.

it's such a great argument, that i think I'LL use it... (not even if lightning struck me and i became retarded and unable to come up with anything else)

[DaRkJaWs]

Wilt was blatantly stat padding in his "best seasons". Unprecedented levels. I think Kareem could do similar given the same circumstances. In fact, I dont even know if Wilt would call those his best seasons.

Bruh tell us more about how centers, who don't bring the ball up the court and have to have it fed to them, can stat pad. Please, I'd like to see your logic, brah.

[navy]

I didnt watch Wilt, just going by what Ive heard and read about from older posters who did. So sure, dont take my word for it.

It's a weird hour now, but I'll pm a few if they want to chime in.

[DaRkJaWs]

I didnt watch Wilt, just going by what Ive heard and read about from older posters who did. So sure, dont take my word for it.

It's a weird hour now, but I'll pm a few if they want to chime in.

Dodged. Kill yourself.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I watched Wilt play live. He was a good player. Would probably #2 in today's league behind LeBron James.

[navy]

Dodged. Kill yourself.

Alright. How about instead of stat pad, I say he was playing a role where he was out to put up as many stats as he could with the coach letting him do it.

Better?

Although, haha, reading some older threads. Kareem might have been quite the padder himself.

[dunksby]

Alright. How about instead of stat pad, I say he was playing a role where he was out to put up as many stats as he could with the coach letting him do it.

Better?

Although, haha, reading some older threads. Kareem might have been quite the padder himself.

Wilt played on a team palying at a pace of 130 and his coach wanted the team to revolve around him, how else could take 40FGA and 17FTA?
It's funny how Wilt stans emphasize his domination while, it was Kareem's domination in college that got dunking banned. You wanna talk about somebody having a better GOAT case than Kareem? The only legitimate one is MJ, others are just forced.

[Odinn]

quick question: does wilt's 0.325 WS/48 number in 1964 (the highest i've ever seen), include the 6 to 15 blocks per game that he got, or at least some sort of assumption for it?

also, on wilt's championship team of 1967, did he have anyone of the caliber of Magic Johnson or Oscar Robertson?

Kareem's WS/48 numbers;
1970-71 / 0.326
1971-72 / 0.340
And in those seasons, blocks-steals-turnovers were also not recorded.

There would be a great discussion between 1966-67 Hal Greer and rookie Magic Johnson.

Nice but failed attempt in the end.