Pope on Charlie Hebdo - "You cannot insult the Faith of others"

[sweggeh]

In reality there is no such thing as "free speech" we are not able to say whatever we want without reprocussions.

America is certainly not a "free" country.

But I disagree with him. You SHOULD be able to say whatever you want. Words literally can not hurt you. If you allow words to mentally hurt you, that's on you, not the person saying the words. It's just sound.

"We have tested the dna of young Sheneequa, and you sir are indeed the father."

"I'm sorry John. Your wife is dead."

"Dad, I'm gay."

"I'm leaving you. Also I f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]ked your brother."

Words can definitely hurt dude. Wtf you talkin about.

[sweggeh]

And therein lies the problem- the fact that people pass off extremist behavior as something that should be expected over something as trivial as a damn cartoon. This is why religious snake oil salesmen like the pope, who literally have millions of people believing what they say is divine, should denounce the irrational reactions and not the words/drawings/etc that inspired them. There's no excuse for someone reacting to a cartoon with a wholesale massacre. None whatsoever. There is no room for that in a supposedly civilized society.

Well you gotta think of it from his perspective. Its easy to say if you aren't religious that we should be able to mock religion. But I bet if you were black, you wouldn't agree to people being allowed to mock blacks. Or gays allowing other gays to be mocked freely. Everyone loves "free speech" until it turns on them.

[gigantes]

People have been mocking Christianity and Jesus for centuries and there hasn't been retribution like this.

Most Christians = Developed way of thinking

Most Muslims = Grrrr mmmm fire!

looks like you have a lot of study in front of you, because pretty much the complete opposite has been true for the body of christian history.

When did i say that? I just said expect some kind retaliation, either as silly as an insult or as extreme as a massacre. Especially when dealing with extemist.

exactly. you can frame it as a religious thing, but it's more a common sense thing IMO.

religious extremist ~ mentally ill person, at least functionally. therefore is it a good idea to provoke the mentally ill?

in nature there is no 'justice' or 'right' or 'wrong'. nature operates by cause and effect and other shiz of that sort.

[KNOW1EDGE]

"We have tested the dna of young Sheneequa, and you sir are indeed the father."

"I'm sorry John. Your wife is dead."

"Dad, I'm gay."

"I'm leaving you. Also I f[COLOR="Black"]uc[/COLOR]ked your brother."


Words can definitely hurt dude. Wtf you talkin about.

Maybe if you are unstable.

If you allow them to hurt you. If you are confident, or have faith, none of those will "hurt" you. You may feel some type of way.

It's like when these kids I work with say "your making me mad" No, you are choosing to be mad.

It's totally human to feel emotion and be "hurt" by words, but you choose to

[DonDadda59]

Well you gotta think of it from his perspective. Its easy to say if you aren't religious that we should be able to mock religion. But I bet if you were black, you wouldn't agree to people being allowed to mock blacks. Or gays allowing other gays to be mocked freely. Everyone loves "free speech" until it turns on them.

I am Black. Lived in South Africa during the final years of Apartheid. There was a lot more being done to South African people of color than bad names being thrown around. Some, including family members of mine, joined armed resistance groups (or terrorist militias depending on who you ask ) Doesn't change my feelings on the subject.

The Pope is saying, even if he's trying to do it tongue-in-cheek with the 'yo mama' analogy, it's OK to retaliate with violence if someone says something about your beliefs that you don't like. No sane or rational person would take that stance. It makes it even worse because he is someone who hundreds of millions of people view as a moral/spiritual (and maybe even 'legal') authority.

[~primetime~]

Well you gotta think of it from his perspective. Its easy to say if you aren't religious that we should be able to mock religion. But I bet if you were black, you wouldn't agree to people being allowed to mock blacks. Or gays allowing other gays to be mocked freely. Everyone loves "free speech" until it turns on them.

yep racism and homophobia are frowned upon much more than bigotry in the US...probably shouldn't be that way, there is a little bit of a double standard going

[~primetime~]

I am Black. Lived in South Africa during the final years of Apartheid. There was a lot more being done to South African people of color than bad names being thrown around. Some, including family members of mine, joined armed resistance groups (or terrorist militias depending on who you ask ) Doesn't change my feelings on the subject.

The Pope is saying, even if he's trying to do it tongue-in-cheek with the 'yo mama' analogy, it's OK to retaliate with violence if someone says something about your beliefs that you don't like. No sane or rational person would take that stance. It makes it even worse because he is someone who hundreds of millions of people view as a moral/spiritual (and maybe even 'legal') authority.

naw, he's not saying that...

he is telling HIS people, the Catholics..."don't insult the faith of others"

[DonDadda59]

naw, he's not saying that...

he is telling HIS people, the Catholics..."don't insult the faith of others"

Uhhh... no. Read that last part again:

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said half-jokingly, throwing a mock punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

He's saying that violent reactions to perceived personal insults, specifically those concerning faith, are 'normal' and should be expected. Of course the writer tried to make it seem it was 'half-jokingly' but the sentiment is clearly there.

It's extremely irresponsible for a person in his position to say something like that, especially given the climate of religious extremism that seems to be popping up in different spots globally.

[~primetime~]

Uhhh... no. Read that last part again:

"If my good friend Dr. Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch," Francis said half-jokingly, throwing a mock punch his way. "It's normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others."

He's saying that violent reactions to perceived personal insults are 'normal' and should be expected. Of course the writer tried to make it seem it was 'half-jokingly' but the sentiment is clearly there.

It's extremely irresponsible for a person in his position to say something like that, especially given the climate of religious extremism that seems to be popping up in different spots globally.

"expect a punch" =/= "it's OK to retaliate with violence"

[DonDadda59]

"expect a punch" =/= "it's OK to retaliate with violence"

Then why did he specifically say someone insulting his mother should expect a punch which is a violent reaction... only to liken that in his very next breath to what is a 'normal' reaction to someone provoking or insulting another's faith would/should be?

It was obviously a deliberate analogy.

[KingBeasley08]

F*ck the pope. good thing these dudes don't have power anymore.

[~primetime~]

Then why did he specifically say someone insulting his mother should expect a punch which is a violent reaction... only to liken that in his very next breath to what is a 'normal' reaction to someone provoking or insulting another's faith?

It was obviously a deliberate analogy.

The pope isn't condoning punching anyone...he just used himself to explain the situation (in a joking manner)

He's saying something we all know...if you insult someone you better be ready for retaliation. "a punch"

[DonDadda59]

The pope isn't condoning punching anyone...he just used himself to explain the situation (in a joking manner)

He's saying something we all know...if you insult someone you better be ready for retaliation. "a punch"

Exactly, now you're getting it. But he's saying it in the context of perceived insults to one's faith/religion... which is the same exact mentality that resulted in the Charlie Hebdo situation. That was one mean right hook in response to a cartoon.

That's not a message the head of a religious institution with hundreds of millions/billions of adherents should be making.

[~primetime~]

ISIS/muslim extremists don't give the slightest fck about "free speech"...and anyone insulting them should be aware of that

The real message the pope is sending: "you should be scared to insult muslims because they'll fckin shoot you"

[DonDadda59]

The real message the pope is sending: "you should be scared to insult muslims because they'll fckin shoot you"

Which is the absolute weakest and useless message someone in his position could've made. He should've instead said something along the lines of 'If one insults your faith, you should be content in the knowledge that words or children's drawings cannot shake your beliefs. Do as our LORD and savior proclaimed in our holy book and turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor. We are all GOD's children and should never actively seek to harm other human beings, especially in the name of our all powerful, loving, and benevolent LORD'.

But instead he went with the 'mamma said knock you out' response. Based Pope.