Anyone else believe that Magic may be - at least lightly - overrated?

[MJistheGOAT]

NBA Finals records:



5-game series:




6-game series:




7-game series:




Career:

WHAT A ETHER!!!! EPIC

[3ball]

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It's literally impossible that both Magic/Kareem are top 5 given their Finals record

One must get bumped down, and I think Magic gets bumped down beside lebron as fellow ball-dominators:


MJ
Bird
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Russell
Hakeem
Duncan
Kobe
Magic
Lebron

[light]

Not an agenda driven question, I'm not here to irrationally hate on a basketball legend, but this is what I believe.

People frequently rank Magic in the top 5 all time of their GOAT lists. Some even believe that he's one of the few non-MJ players that can be legitimately argued for GOAT. I disagree.

Firstly, out of all of the consensus top 10 players (MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Bird Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, Lebron) Magic was by FAR the worst defender. In fact he was the only player on the aforementioned list who I'd call a complete net-negative on that side of the floor.

Additionally, he was drafted into possibly the most fortunate circumstances of any player in the top 10. He was lucky enough to share the floor with the best player in the league at the time, Kareem, who would actually win his sixth MVP during Magic's rookie year. It's arguable that Magic wasn't even the best player on the Lakers until '87, which would mean that Magic wasn't even the best player on his own team for the majority of his career.

Furthermore, I just don't believe Magic to be as talented as anyone else in the top 10, outside of maybe Russell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to claim that he was some scrub who was carried by superior players. He was a very good scorer, good leader, a huge triple double threat, and an obviously an incredibly gifted passer. But even considering all of that, his talent still doesn't quite stack up to the other members of the top 10, at least IMO.


I would actually rank all of Duncan, Shaq, Bird, and Kobe over Magic.

Agree? Disagree?

Look, everyone knows about Magic's defense and it has never mattered. Basically, Magic Johnson was so great that it didn't matter that he wasn't a good defender. Now ask yourself how good a player would have to be in order to still be considered top 5 all time while sucking at defense...

Magic was that good.

[Axe]

Why the unnecessary bump, 3ball?

[Bronbron23]

Not an agenda driven question, I'm not here to irrationally hate on a basketball legend, but this is what I believe.

People frequently rank Magic in the top 5 all time of their GOAT lists. Some even believe that he's one of the few non-MJ players that can be legitimately argued for GOAT. I disagree.

Firstly, out of all of the consensus top 10 players (MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Bird Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, Lebron) Magic was by FAR the worst defender. In fact he was the only player on the aforementioned list who I'd call a complete net-negative on that side of the floor.

Additionally, he was drafted into possibly the most fortunate circumstances of any player in the top 10. He was lucky enough to share the floor with the best player in the league at the time, Kareem, who would actually win his sixth MVP during Magic's rookie year. It's arguable that Magic wasn't even the best player on the Lakers until '87, which would mean that Magic wasn't even the best player on his own team for the majority of his career.

Furthermore, I just don't believe Magic to be as talented as anyone else in the top 10, outside of maybe Russell. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to claim that he was some scrub who was carried by superior players. He was a very good scorer, good leader, a huge triple double threat, and an obviously an incredibly gifted passer. But even considering all of that, his talent still doesn't quite stack up to the other members of the top 10, at least IMO.


I would actually rank all of Duncan, Shaq, Bird, and Kobe over Magic.

Agree? Disagree?

Nah he cemented himself in his first finals as a rookie when kareem went out. That was probably the most impressive game game ever when you consider the circumstance

[Stephonit]

Nah he cemented himself in his first finals as a rookie when kareem went out. That was probably the most impressive game game ever when you consider the circumstance

Jamaal Wilkes says hello.

[3ball]

Why the unnecessary bump, 3ball?

It's literally impossible that both Magic/Kareem are top 5 given their Finals record

One must get bumped down, and I think Magic gets bumped down beside lebron as fellow ball-dominator that limits team ceiling compared to guys like MJ or Bird who didn't dominate the ball

I have Magic and Lebron as borderline top 10, behind the non-ball-dominators (MJ/Bird), and the bigs (Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan etc)

[Bronbron23]

Jamaal Wilkes says hello.

man i could say that about anyone though. Everyone had help. Magic as a rookie with the best player in the world hurt stepped up to the center position from a point gaurd and dropped 42 pts 12 reb and 7 assists in a huge finals game. If you can find me something more impressiv than that ill be shocked.

[Phoenix]

It's literally impossible that both Magic/Kareem are top 5 given their Finals record

One must get bumped down, and I think Magic gets bumped down beside lebron as fellow ball-dominator that limits team ceiling compared to guys like MJ or Bird who didn't dominate the ball

I have Magic and Lebron as borderline top 10, behind the non-ball-dominators (MJ/Bird), and the bigs (Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Duncan etc)

By that reasoning why do you have Kobe behind the bigs, wouldn't you have him in the same category with MJ and Bird?

[Carbine]

I'm continually baffled by 3ball when he says things like Magic must be bumped down because of his ball dominance limiting team cieiling.

Isn't the objective to win?

Doesn't he have 5 titles, the most of his era since entering and leaving the league?

[3ball]

man i could say that about anyone though. Everyone had help. Magic as a rookie with the best player in the world hurt stepped up to the center position from a point gaurd and dropped 42 pts 12 reb and 7 assists in a huge finals game. If you can find me something more impressiv than that ill be shocked.

Why were Kareem and Magic only 5-4 in Finals if they're both top 5?

It's impossible

So someone is overrated and I'll go with the ball-dominator

[Bronbron23]

Why were Kareem and Magic only 5-4 in Finals if they're both top 5?

It's impossible

So someone is overrated and I'll go with the ball-dominator

Dude you lie so muck kareem was done as a top 5 player after the 82 season. Why you mak8ng shit up?

[LAL]

Magic never came close to a "losing" season, either. Hell, a 36 year old Magic, way-past-his-peak, out of shape, overweight, and disease-ridden, led a pathetic Laker team to a 22-10 record.

And Magic led his team to the Finals in NINE of his 12 prime seasons. And had he not been injured for much of the '81 season, he likely would have led them to not only the Finals, but most likely a title.

As for the "weak" Western Conference...how about this..

The Lakers POUNDED the '80 and '82 Sixers (hell, they won a clinching playoff game, in a rout, and on the road, with their second best player watching the game from his couch.) They wiped out the Celtics in '85 and '87 (and should have SWEPT them in '84.) And they beat the Pistons in '88 (and had they not been wiped out by injuries to Scott and then Magic in '89, who knows.)

And Magic led his 58-24 team to a romp over the 63-19 Blazers in his LAST season. A Portland team that would be in the Finals the very next year.

Oh, and before someone says that Magic never won a title withOUT Kareem. How about this? In the '88 post-season, Kareem was a shell. He was even worse in the Finals, and he was simply AWFUL in game seven of the Finals. That LA team could have won with Krusty the Clown playing center.

And I would argue that the '87 Lakers were so dominant that they could easily have given KAJ's minutes to Thompson and Green, and still ran away with the title.

Furthermore, in the '82 post-season, it was CLEARLY Magic who was LA's best player. In fact, McAdoo put up nearly identical numbers as Kareem did in the Finals, and on far less minutes. I suspect that the Lakers would have won a title without Kareem that year, as well. BTW, Kareem missed six games that year, and guess what,...the Lakers went 6-0 in them.

And again, in a clinching title game, on the road, and withOUT Kareem, Magic led them to a ROUT of the Sixers.

BTW, in their 10 years on the Lakers together, in the games Magic missed and Kareem played...the Lakers won .604 of them. In the games that Kareem missed, and Magic played...LA went .750!

People become absolutely flabergasted when you rank Kobe over KAJ. Like i have to be more impressed with his mvp's, total points and plus minus cookies. To each his own.

[ShawkFactory]

People become absolutely flabergasted when you rank Kobe over KAJ. Like i have to be more impressed with his mvp's, total points and plus minus cookies. To each his own.

If you’re playing a pickup game (or even a series) with captains and everything and you have prime Kobe and prime KAJ, there are VERY few people who are picking Kobe first. You get the center who is unstoppable first. Always. Doesn’t really have anything to do with his career totals.

[FKAri]

Yes he is definitely overrated. Meanwhile Moses Malone, Bird, and even his teammates in Worthy and Kareem have become underrated