If LeBron doesn't win a ring the rest of his career.. does he have enough to be top 5

[LAZERUSS]

Suddenly, winning is important....

Of course there's the agenda of downplaying Kareem to prop up that other guy.

Magic > Kareem. All you need to know.

[Asukal]

Magic > Kareem. All you need to know.

All shit aside, I agree. But that's only because it is true when you take into context who made the team a better winner. Still doesn't change the fact you have another agenda.

[LAZERUSS]

All shit aside, I agree. But that's only because it is true when you take into context who made the team a better winner. Still doesn't change the fact you have another agenda.

Agenda? I'm sorry my friend, but I have been "pro-Magic" since his first NBA game.

We saw what Kareem's career was like before Magic arrived, and what it was after Magic arrived. And BTW, we also saw Magic carrying teams to records of 63-19 and 58-24 AFTER Kareem. AND, withOUT Magic... records of 43-39 and 39-43.

It was MAGIC who made those Laker teams great, and it was MAGIC who added FIVE more rings to KAJ's resume.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Agenda? I'm sorry my friend, but I have been "pro-Magic" since his first NBA game.

We saw what Kareem's career was like before Magic arrived, and what it was after Magic arrived. And BTW, we also saw Magic carrying teams to records of 63-19 and 58-24 AFTER Kareem. AND, withOUT Magic... records of 43-39 and 39-43.

It was MAGIC who made those Laker teams great, and it was MAGIC who added FIVE more rings to KAJ's resume.

If Magic literally carried Kareem to 5 more titles, then why do you even have Kareem in your top 5 then?

[LAZERUSS]

If Magic literally carried Kareem to 5 more titles, then why do you even have Kareem in your top 5 then?

Easy...a peak Kareem, circa from '70 thru '74, was among the three greatest peaks in NBA history (Wilt and MJ being the other two.) And, BTW, he was a major contributor in three of those five rings with Magic, and I would even give him the bulk of the ring in '80.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

So your top 5 criteria is heavily weighted towards 'peak' and doesn't factor in much else. Why am I not surprised.

[LAZERUSS]

So your top 5 criteria is heavily weighted towards 'peak' and doesn't factor in much else. Why am I not surprised.

Kareem played 20 years in the NBA, and was slaughtering the likes of Hakeem and Ewing at ages 38-40.

[Asukal]

Kareem played 20 years in the NBA, and was slaughtering the likes of Hakeem and Ewing at ages 38-40.

He slaughtered Wilt too.

[LAZERUSS]

He slaughtered Wilt too.

Outscored him...yes.

Slaughtered him?



An old Wilt, a year removed from major knee surgery, and in the midst of the worst season in his career...in the '70-71 season...statistically EQUALLED a PEAK Kareem in their five regular season, and five post-season H2H's. In fact, most intelligent observers gave THIS Wilt, a 3-1-1 edge in their five post-season H2H's.

Then, in the 71-72 WCF's, again, while Kareem heavily outscored Chamberlain...it was UNIVERSALLY acknowledged that Wilt had OUTPLAYED him in that series. Especially in the last four games of that series, when Kareem couldn't hit the ocean from a life-raft (shooting .414 in those four games.)

Then, in their six regular season H2H's in Wilt's last season, Chamberlain outshot Kareem by a .737 to .450 margin, which included one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, and outshot him from the field, 10-14 to 10-27.

Oh, and in their ONLY H2H before Wilt shredded his knee...Chamberlain easily outplayed him. He outscored him 25-23; outrebounded him, 25-20; outassisted him, 5-2; outblocked him, 3-2 (including TWO sky-hooks); and outshot him from the floor by a 9-14 to 9-21 margin.

Too bad we never got to witness a PRIME Chamberlain, circa '64 thru '68, playing against that PEAK Kareem. Given what we saw in their actual H2H's...I suspect that, like everyone else he faced in the 60's...Chamberlain would have dominated Kareem.

[Asukal]

I recall this Wilt interview where he said he needed help to guard a young Lew Alcindor. Outright outplayed and slaughtered like a fish.

[LAZERUSS]

I recall this Wilt interview where he said he needed help to guard a young Lew Alcindor. Outright outplayed and slaughtered like a fish.

And yet...it NEVER happened.

Chamberlain played Kareem ONE-ON-ONE exclusively.

Not only that, but he was knocking the "unblockable" sky-hook all over the gym.

But, please go ahead and post us this footage in which Chamberlain is getting help.

[Asukal]

And yet...it NEVER happened.

Chamberlain played Kareem ONE-ON-ONE exclusively.

Not only that, but he was knocking the "unblockable" sky-hook all over the gym.

But, please go ahead and post us this footage in which Chamberlain is getting help.

But he did say it in an interview and Kareem scored on him with ease. Of course it was old man Wilt not prime Wilt so I guess he gets a pass. Why so salty?

[LAZERUSS]

But he did say it in an interview and Kareem scored on him with ease. Of course it was old man Wilt not prime Wilt so I guess he gets a pass. Why so salty?

Kareem scored on his with ease?

How about this...

a 38-42 year old Kareem outscored a 22-26 year old Hakeem in their 23 career H2H's, and also outshot him by a .607 to .512 margin.

In 20 of those 23 H2H's, a way-past-his-prime Kareem shot 50%+, with 12 games of 60%, and five of 70%.

In his 28 career H2H's with an aging Wilt, a PEAK Kareem shot ...get this... .464.

Furthermore, in their LAST TEN straight games, Kareem shot .434 against Wilt.

He only had TEN games of 50%+, and only ONE of 60%+ against Wilt, with SIX below 40%.


And how about this recap from their '70-71 WCF's...

[QUOTE]Game 5 April 18, 1971

Bucks Await Championship Series
Wilt Wins 7-Foot Battle But Loses 7-Game Set
By BOB GREENE
Associated Press Sports Writer

MILWAUKEE

[LAZERUSS]

But he did say it in an interview and Kareem scored on him with ease. Of course it was old man Wilt not prime Wilt so I guess he gets a pass. Why so salty?

I find it fascinating that you claim Russell was the better player in his H2H's with Chamberlain, despite having better rosters, and despite Chamberlain massively outscoring, outrebounding, and outshooting Russell...much of which was against a prime Russell.

And yet, when a PEAK Kareem, with a roster that went 66-16 and then 63-19, outscores a way-past-his prime Wilt, but is badly outshot from the field, and also outrebounded...

AND, in their four years in the league together, Wilt held a 3-1 Finals margin, an basically had more TEAM success (even taking a 48-34 roster to a 69-13 record)...

and you seem to be favoring Kareem.

Seems a bit hypocritical don't you think.

[BigTicket]

No, he does not.

He is top 10 without another ring, but not top 5.