when Kobe hangs them up where will he be on the GOAT list

[Wade's Rings]

When in doubt, PER is the ultimate arbitrator

So Lebron went 2/4 with the 8th Greatest Player of All-Time in Wade

[dubeta]

So Lebron went 2/4 with the 8th Greatest Player of All-Time in Wade

Broken down version of him yes

[Wade's Rings]

He said he watches about 4 baksetball games a year. He also ranked Wade's '06 Finals as the greatest ever.

D-GOAT

[rmt]

Broken down version of him yes

I dunno know. 26.5/7/5.2/1.5/1.5 54.6% doesn't seem too shabby to me.

Age G GS MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS FG% 3P% FT% MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK
1 Dwyane Wade 29 6 6 234 59 108 7 23 34 49 15 27 42 31 9 9 15 14 159 .546 .304 .694 39.0 26.5 7.0 5.2 1.5 1.5
2 Chris Bosh 26 6 6 237 38 92 0 1 35 45 15 29 44 6 1 3 13 15 111 .413 .000 .778 39.4 18.5 7.3 1.0 0.2 0.5
3 LeBron James 26 6 6 262 43 90 9 28 12 20 6 37 43 41 10 3 24 20 107 .478 .321 .600 43.6 17.8 7.2 6.8 1.7 0.5

[AirBourne92]

I think coaches do use a lot of advanced statistics. That's why Pop has based his defense on defending the 3 (especially the corner 3) and defending against layups. He's willing to give up contested 2s. That's why Spurs always have difficulty against teams with good midrange jump shooters like Dirk's Mavs and OKC with Durant/Westbrooke. They can hit those all day long.

They use it in a different manner than what we do.


for them its supplemental, but not absolute.

im not saying they eradicate it, but if someone was to present them a side by side comparison of kobe vs lebron and conclude that lebron was a better shooter or scorer than kobe, they wouldn't buy it at all.

even their PER interpretation is different than ours.

the problem is that most casual fans never experienced like a formal manner of basketball, the technicalities of the game, the strategies, and basically the whole process that a competitive team goes through in a competitive league day and night.

its like telling someone to google how to do open heart surgery, sure you might scrape up some details of the procedure, but you sure as hell not going to get all of it.

[Ne 1]

those analysts dont even "analyze" basketball in the same manner that professional basketball teams and coaches do.

a basketball team, after a game, will review their box score stats, but think nothing of it--or at least not as much as we do.

what they do is the eye test---they go into the film room and break everything down.

i know this because unlike all you fukboyz in here that talk like you know everything, i actually hooped in college and know people that play semi pro and pro.

NBA coaches are known to not trust statistics, especially advanced statistics.

get the *** outta here with your shit boyy

Yeah, besides win shares and defensive win shares which is even worse, PER is probably the most worthless metric in basketball. Completely arbitrary. I've never seen an NBA player or coach talk about PER or the even worse win shares. Coaches do use +/- however, which can give you an indication of what lineups work. And it's not a formula.

But anything calculated from box scores is useless. Rate stats are nice though (TRB% and the like) as are team ORtg/DRtg/Pace, but contrived measures are weak as hell. The only advanced metrics worth a damn otherwise are play-by-play based (+/-)

[tpols]

I think coaches do use a lot of advanced statistics. That's why Pop has based his defense on defending the 3 (especially the corner 3) and defending against layups. He's willing to give up contested 2s. That's why Spurs always have difficulty against teams with good midrange jump shooters like Dirk's Mavs and OKC with Durant/Westbrooke. They can hit those all day long.

That use of advanced stats by your coach is why you guys lost a sure fire ring.

#neverforget #rayray

[Wade's Rings]

Yeah, besides win shares and defensive win shares which is even worse

How are those even calculated? What are the flaws in your opinion?

[rmt]

That use of advanced stats by your coach is why you guys lost a sure fire ring.

#neverforget #rayray

Yep. That's a strategy I don't agree with. In crunch time, put the best players on the court - especially the player with the MOST DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS IN PLAYOFF HISTORY.

Only Ray could have hit that shot. And for those who say that Curry is the GOAT 3pt shooter - I wanna see him hit that in that kind of situation and get the 3pt record before they crown him.

I do they think they use advanced stats though - see the difference in the way he chose to defend Lebron between 13 and 14. In 13 - they laid off him and dared Lebron to shoot and he didn't. In 14, he had Leonard up into Lebron.

[Inferno]

Top 10

[rmt]

You know what, I take that back. No way Pop could have been using advanced stats recently. He'd know that Parker was the worst player on the Spurs this year and woulda played Mills instead.

[tpols]

Yep. That's a strategy I don't agree with. In crunch time, put the best players on the court - especially the player with the MOST DEFENSIVE REBOUNDS IN PLAYOFF HISTORY.

Only Ray could have hit that shot. And for those who say that Curry is the GOAT 3pt shooter - I wanna see him hit that in that kind of situation and get the 3pt record before they crown him.

I do they think they use advanced stats though - see the difference in the way he chose to defend Lebron between 13 and 14. In 13 - they laid off him and dared Lebron to shoot and he didn't. In 14, he had Leonard up into Lebron.

That's where myopic efficiency argument is defeated by common sense.

[Showtime2001]

Kobe > Duncan.

[Ne 1]

How are those even calculated? What are the flaws in your opinion?

Like all of these formula stats that try to combine all numbers into one, it's useless. Incredibly subjective values given to each area.

Win shares is calculated by taking a box-stat-based measure of player efficiency and normalizing it using usage rates and team wins (amongst other things). So immediately we can see a number of reasons why it sucks. First, box-stat-based individual performance measures such as PER severely misjudge player performance. But apparently that's not enough crap for one stat; win shares piles on more crap by normalizing using team wins, without an underlying model to justify such an assumption.

[Cold soul]

Like most said top 10 while top five is huge reach.