One thing I notice about Shaq and Wilt's dunks:

[warriorfan]

Cavs subtly trying to group Wilt in with Shaq's level of down low power.

A for effort.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt was not as powerful as Shaq.

He didn't go through defneders, rather he went over and above them.

I don't think that's quite how it goes.

My understanding from testimony and watching film is Wilt did not like to go through defenders - in isolation post up plays - the same way Shaq would. This is a very specific type of play though. If a spin to the baseline for a dunk wasn't available Wilt would prefer to fade away or turn in with one drop step for a finger roll (same footwork Shaq used for a jump hook). Where as Shaq would try and back you down and lean into you more aggressively before he'd decide to hook or take a form of jump shot. There are always exceptions to this too, there are clips of Wilt dislodging people but only a few. There are also clips of Shaq taking a fall away type of shot but of course, only a few.

But an isolation post up play is but one method among a list of methods that can and did generate a dunks for both players. You have to consider back door plays, lobs, p&r, g&g, fast breaks, trailers, and offensive rebound put backs are all also generating dunks for both of those players. And in those specific dunk plays, both guys look virtually the same. They BOTH would go over top of players in those plays, and they both had such mass and strength players almost always appeared to duck out of the way instead of try and take any of the contact or put hands up.

[La Frescobaldi]

Please don't ever compare Wilt to the greatest peak player of all time. One man pulled down the entire foundation of the hoop, the other man has only tall tales of his inferior strength relative to Shaq.

"But.. but.. but.. Arnold said...."

No one cares. Wilt never destroyed the foundation of the hoop. Evidence that he had inferior strength and explosiveness.

Chamberlain performed the greatest feats of strength I've ever seen on a basketball court and it's not remotely close.

Nor was O'Neal's peak ever greater than Jordan, Jabbar, Chamberlain, Bird, ABA Julius Erving, nor Magic Jonson's peaks, all of which I witnessed. In around the basket, strictly on offense, he has an argument; but nowhere else. He never dominated the entire court like those others did.

If you want to compare him with Moses Malone or Kobe Bryant, someone of that level, by all means have fun with that.
But to compare him with Chamberlain at anything but low post offense is witless.

[Trollsmasher]

weak era

[DonDadda59]

Working on a Wilt dunk mix and watched the Shaq legacy video again and I noticed both of those guys rarely ever had legitimately contested dunks.

Ridiculous. Tons of Shaq's dunks were contested.

Multiple Jams on Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, etc

He had one where Alonzo Mourning bounced off him like Zo was a bug getting splattered on a wind shield.

[ShawkFactory]

Please don't ever compare Wilt to the greatest peak player of all time. One man pulled down the entire foundation of the hoop, the other man has only tall tales of his inferior strength relative to Shaq.

"But.. but.. but.. Arnold said...."

No one cares. Wilt never destroyed the foundation of the hoop. Evidence that he had inferior strength and explosiveness.

You are literally retarded. I'm surprised you can type

[DonDadda59]

The City of Portland = Tokyo, Shaq = Godzilla

[CavaliersFTW]

Ridiculous. Tons of Shaq's dunks were contested.

Multiple Jams on Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, etc

He had one where Alonzo Mourning bounced off him like Zo was a bug getting splattered on a wind shield.

I don't think you get the premise of the thread. "Tons" of Wilt's dunks were also contested.

Even if 1 and 10 or 1 and 20 are contested, when score 28-30,000 points making a career out of deep positioning inevitably your going to have a lot of examples of contested dunks.

But it's still the overwhelming minority of all dunk attempts.

The overwhelming majority were thrown in the hoop while people in close proximity were ducking out of the way.

You think I'm wrong here? Watch 10 games of Shaq. Count how many times he dunks. Then count how many of those dunks were well contested. Once he's got the ball in his hands and he's about to take off, most people cleared out. And for good reason.

[Sarcastic]

Wilt didn't go through defenders because the game was called different back then. If Shaq time travelled back to Wilt's time, he'd foul out the first 6 times he touched the ball.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt didn't go through defenders because the game was called different back then. If Shaq time travelled back to Wilt's time, he'd foul out the first 6 times he touched the ball.

This COULD be true.

However, I must say George Mikan tended to use his elbows and shoulders and lean and turn heavily into contact in efforts to sort of dislodge players in a very similar fashion to what Shaq did decades later.

It could be based on how a superstar forces refs to evaluate calls. So perhaps in the Mikan, and Shaq era, refs were presented with two rough superstars, and had to sort of adjust or re-evaluate how they called games. In the Wilt, Russell and Jabbar era even slight contact did seem to warrant an offensive charge. But it could be because that's how that generation of superstars had trained the refs to call games.

I'm not entirely sure, just my 2 cents based on observation.

[HighFlyer23]

Wilt didn't go through defenders because the game was called different back then. If Shaq time travelled back to Wilt's time, he'd foul out the first 6 times he touched the ball.

No

Wilt himself claims to play a more finesse game to "prove" critics, detractors, and the media wrong. The line of thinking was that of course someone so much larger than the competition could out muscle his way to the basket.

But really I think that his game was just like that. He wasn't a power player like Shaq. He was a strong guy, but that wasn't his game.

[CavaliersFTW]

No

Wilt himself claims to play a more finesse game to "prove" critics, detractors, and the media wrong. The line of thinking was that of course someone so much larger than the competition could out muscle his way to the basket.

But really I think that his game was just like that. He wasn't a power player like Shaq. He was a strong guy, but that wasn't his game.

It is a little bit of both though, technically the offensive fouls are indeed called way softer in Wilt and Russell era games. Watch some of them and you'll think "how TF is that a charge he barely touched him?". I think Kareem "charges" Bellamy in these highlights somewhere, as a good example of it. Kareem barely brushes up against Bellamy's chest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSYtYGYxBFk

Meanwhile there's film of Shaq literally going underneath Mutumbo, then proceeding to lift him off the ground with his shoulder. And it isn't called a foul.

But as I also said, I think the players influence the refs and visa versa, I think Shaq used to get called for a lot of those fouls early in his career, like AI used to get called for a lot of carries early in his career. Eventually that stuff stops getting called. I think if Wilt wanted to play physical like Mikan or Shaq, maybe the refs would have eventually let it happen. But like you said, it wasn't in his nature to run people over.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Thing is, most defenders in Wilt's era couldn't even touch the rim. Basically made it very easy to dunk.

[DonDadda59]

I don't think you get the premise of the thread. "Tons" of Wilt's dunks were also contested.

Even if 1 and 10 or 1 and 20 are contested, when score 28-30,000 points making a career out of deep positioning inevitably your going to have a lot of examples of contested dunks.

But it's still the overwhelming minority of all dunk attempts.

The overwhelming majority were thrown in the hoop while people in close proximity were ducking out of the way.

You think I'm wrong here? Watch 10 games of Shaq. Count how many times he dunks. Then count how many of those dunks were well contested. Once he's got the ball in his hands and he's about to take off, most people cleared out. And for good reason.

You can watch whole series of players trying to challenge Shaq's dunk attempts consistently (see: Mutumbo, Dikembe).

[CavaliersFTW]

You can watch whole series of players trying to challenge Shaq's dunk attempts consistently (see: Mutumbo, Dikembe).

Same is true if you watch Russell vs Wilt clips.

Doesn't change the premise of the thread.

Do you still deny the overwhelming majority of Shaq's dunks were made while people were either clearing out or standing/watching playing matador defense?

People didn't want to get run over by the diesel. This is not an insult to him, this is a credit to his physical prowess. You seem to be taking it like it's an insult and hesitate to admit that's how most of his dunks were defended. It's not a dis, it is the opposite. It is proof positive he was a scary mf'er down low.