What would Larry Bird Average in todays game?

[Gileraracer]

Larry would still be a beast. 29/9/8 easily

[305Baller]

Better than prime Love, Bron (?) numbers:

28/9/8

[Dragonyeuw]

He has 3 crucial elite skills that transcend any era:

shooting: This speaks for itself. Bird is one of the GOAT shooters, and in this era with the way the game is called on the perimeter, he would feast on the majority of defenders just as he did in the 80's.

below the rim rebounding: Bird was getting 10 rebounds a night playing against some bruising power forwards and centers. He had that knack for positioning, timing, understanding the ball bounce off the rim, that made him an elite rebounder regardless of any size or athletic advantage he may have given up.

passing: One of the GOAT non-PG passers. In the 80's Magic was known for his flashy passing but Bird in his own way was about as effective a passer, especially in a half-court setting. Bird would be as heralded for his passing in this era as Lebron is.

Throw on top one of the GOAT IQs, competitive toughness, and Bird would be as lethal in this era as he was in his own. Depending on team makeup, a minimum of 26/11/7 on 50/40/90 averages.

[Pushxx]

Less blocks, more rebounds (see Kevin Love), more points (3-PT line evolution and soft fouls). Perennial MVP.

[Rose'sACL]

2012 lebron stats with way worse defense comparatively.
i am assuming this is prime bird were are talking about.

[kshutts1]

I don't see his numbers changing much.

But how can people say he would "clearly" be the best player in the league? I won't dispute that he might be the best, but it would not be clear. Keep in mind that just because a current player may be better than Bird for one season, that does not mean that said player is higher all time.

It's not a crime to suggest that 2015/2016 iterations of Lebron, Durant, Davis, Bird could all be basically interchangeable as an individual if Bird were planted in to this league.

[sdot_thadon]

I'm thinking something along the lines of
26-28 ppg
8-10 rpg (if he takes advantage of the 3 point line more he'll be farther away from the basket)
6-8 apg
48-52 fg% (dependent on how much he adopts the 3)
37-42 3pt%
90 ft%

My only concern would be his defense and if his athleticism would be a problem in this era at all. That could skew his numbers a bit.

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ dude who suggested that Bird would average FEWER rebounds today than back then. Bird was grabbing 9-10+ boards while playing alongside McHale and Parish, and while playing in a man's league filled with quality big men and rugged physicality. He would DOMINATE on the glass today at the 3-4 spot.

And also lol @ anyone suggesting that 2015 Lebron is close to prime Bird. No. 2-3 years ago, sure.

[Dragonyeuw]

My only concern would be his defense and if his athleticism would be a problem in this era at all. That could skew his numbers a bit.

Why would it? It wasn't a problem in his era and he was going against Dr.J, Barkley, Nique, King, Worthy, English, Pippen, etc. The guys who would pose defensive problems for him in this era ( Lebron, Durant, Melo) would pose problems for anyone in any era in terms of stopping their scoring. His strengths in terms of team defense would transfer to this era, mainly because the guy was always 2-3 plays ahead of everyone else. I swear guys like Magic and Bird saw the game through Matrix-style code, they were always mentally ahead of everyone else.

[sdot_thadon]

Why would it? It wasn't a problem in his era and he was going against Dr.J, Barkley, Nique, King, Worthy, English, Pippen, etc. The guys who would pose defensive problems for him in this era ( Lebron, Durant, Melo) would pose problems for anyone in any era in terms of stopping their scoring. His strengths in terms of team defense would transfer to this era, mainly because the guy was always 2-3 plays ahead of everyone else. I swear guys like Magic and Bird saw the game through Matrix-style code, they were always mentally ahead of everyone else.

I feel like the overall athleticism at the 3 is greater in this era and it'd be tougher to stay in front of his man, considering he'd have less tools at his disposal with handchecking ruled out. Again not that he'd be a turnstile, just wonder if he'd have issues.

Remember all this is assuming he'd be a 3 still, if they turn him into a stretch 4 then all that goes out the door and he's fine because he'd be amongst the most athletic pf in today's league.

lol @ dude who suggested that Bird would average FEWER rebounds today than back then.Bird was grabbing 9-10+ boards while playing alongside McHale and Parish, and while playing in a man's league filled with quality big men and rugged physicality. He would DOMINATE on the glass today at the 3-4 spot.

And also lol @ anyone suggesting that 2015 Lebron is close to prime Bird. No. 2-3 years ago, sure.

Lol at not considering at all that he may play the game a bit differently in this era. I made sure to note that it had to do with how much he'd adopt the 3 into his game, basically whether he'd be stretch 4 or the same bird from the 80s.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Not sure about stats but I would guess his FG% and 3pg% would be at least 50 and 40 respectively. He used to get guarded in the era of the 80s-90s when it was "rough" and touch fouls weren't called. Watch any old school game from the late 1980s and you will see fouls then that would be called as technicals today.

[Dragonyeuw]

I feel like the overall athleticism at the 3 is greater in this era and it'd be tougher to stay in front of his man, considering he'd have less tools at his disposal with handchecking ruled out. Again not that he'd be a turnstile, just wonder if he'd have issues.

Remember all this is assuming he'd be a 3 still, if they turn him into a stretch 4 then all that goes out the door and he's fine because he'd be amongst the most athletic pf in today's league.

It's likely he would split time at 3 and 4, more or less what he did in his day. And frankly, asides from Lebron and Durant due to his length, I don't see any 'good' SFs who have athleticism any greater than who he had to deal with in his day. The change in rules is going to impact anyone who played 20 years ago to some degree, adjustments would have to be made. Pippen couldn't play the same defense nowadays he did in the 90's, just because of the handchecking.

I always use Kevin Love as a barometer in terms of numbers. If he can put up 26 and 14 on a hapless Wolves team( and Bird is several tiers above as a player), I don't see why Bird couldn't duplicate his 80's numbers. He was more athletic than Love in his younger years, but everyone seems to only recall when he was older and slowed due to injury. Funny thing is, even with his mobility diminished he was still a top level player. In 92, lets call it the Dream team era, he put up 20/10/7 on 46/40/88. At that time he was 35 and could barely move.

[raprap]

Explain why?



1st of all, with all the small-ball going around and whatnot, Bird would probably be playing PF more (at least on defense) and just eating up dudes on the boards.
Also, he most likely wouldn't play alongside a PF of McHale's caliber to "force" him to play SF more, in his prime.

2nd, he most likely wouldn't be playing alongside rebounders as good as Parish+McHale (Kevin in the starting5 since '85-'86).

Plus, and a big plus, league is softer right now with the quality of big-men being worse, especially those tough and great rebounding bigs...

Bird was fighting for boards vs dudes like Rodman, Dr J, Barkley, Buck Williams, Wilkins, Roundfield, Nance, X-Man, Kersey, Marques Johnson, Oakley...

And I'm just mentioning his matchups there ^, won't even talk about centers in the paint.
For instance, Bird was almost rebounding as much as prime Moses in the '81 Finals.

Bird was simply a great rebounder, and if you consider him mostly a SF, he's clearly one of the very best rebounding SF's ever, most likely top3.
Not to mention that the man was always hustling all out.

Is it about pace? Not again, gimme a ****ing break... Less than 10% difference is as minimal as it gets...

Shawn Marion is smaller than Larry, not as good of an overall rebounder... Averages 8.7 for his CAREER, in LESS than 35 MPG, with a LOWER TRB% than Bird's.

There was a video showing that Larry averaged pretty much the same when playing at today's pace... Can't seem to find it anymore but it won't be hard to put the numbers together, shit not even hard to tell tbh.

In 1992, Larry as a COMPLETE SHELL out there, 35 years old, playing with career-ending injuries, after surgeries, little mobility left... Still averaged 9.6 RPG in less than 37 minutes, with the Celtics' average pace at 95.8.


Yea, 7 rebounds per game, sure Gtfoh
Even if you said less, at most would've been slightly less; suggesting that difference is just ridiculous.


Oh, and Bird would shoot more 3's nowadays (growing up with the line too), and most likely would've had the rock in his hands more.
--> So yea, he would be averaging more or less the same he did back then in his prime, while being the #1 player in the league right now.

7 rebounds per game for a 60 year old man is great bro. No need to catch feelings

[andgar923]

What would've been "different" for him in order to "get" his usual stats, nowadays [/B]

Bird had to fight to even get the ball, had to fight through screens defensively, had to deal with tons of hand checking, clogged lanes, more defensive help coming to trap him.

The game wasn't as open back then and 3pt shots were frowned upon.

Imagine him on a league that encourages the 3pt shot, has weaker inside presence, open lanes, and less physicality?

Players tried their hardest to stop him by being physical and trapping him whenever possible, yet he still managed to kill them. It would be a walk in the park for him now.

Not sure what his stats would be today, but he'd have an easier time that's for sure... .much much easier time.

[Collie]

IMO Larry had one of the GOAT peaks in history. His rankings have really been hurt by his longevity, but peak-wise, he could hang with anybody in NBA history. His one big weakness was his defense, but he did good against PF's, so even that would be minimized today where he would most likely be a PF (which he actually played early on with great success).