Why does Chris Paul get blamed for the Clippers chokes

[Wade's Rings]

Because he chokes in the clutch. Turnovers, missed shots, idiotic fouling.

And he has the most stacked team in the league.

Blew 2-0 and 3-1 series leads in the past two postseasons.

They weren't up 2-0 on the Thunder.

[Wade's Rings]

That's supposed to suggest he has the most impact, responsible for a lot of the Teams wins, and great play, right? Then why can't he be criticized likewise when the Team doesn't perform according to his numbers and advance statistics in crucial situations?

It's not like Chris Paul just started doing this when he joined the Clippers, this choking shit at inopportune moments was a staple during his Hornets tenure too.

He's still the best PG, but then again so was Nash for a time and look how people look back on his career.

I already know you consider the 2008 Series vs the Spurs a choke but outside of that when did he choke? 2009 & 2011 his teams were outmatched. I don't remember the series before those.

[ClipperRevival]

I've watched about 85-90% of all Clipper games since CP3 has been here and he definitely deserves some blame. His issue is that he overthinks too much in pressure situations, sort of like Peyton Manning. Some of the best players ever in the clutch do the opposite and don't overthink but rather just play the game.

Greatest example of this was his game 5 Thunder debacle. Trying to draw a foul 60 feet from the basket? That was overthinking.

And he should not have let his team give up a 20 point 3rd quarter lead against Houston last year. I know he wasn't directly responsible but as the leader, he should've collected his group and stopped the bleeding.

But he has also been extremely clutch in many playoff games also. So he's had his share of ups and downs in the clutch as a Clipper.

[ClipperRevival]

I already know you consider the 2008 Series vs the Spurs a choke but outside of that when did he choke? 2009 & 2011 his teams were outmatched. I don't remember the series before those.

He was magnificent in the 2011 playoffs versus the Lakers. He was simply outmatched but he did his part, that's for sure.

[Wade's Rings]

He was magnificent in the 2011 playoffs versus the Lakers. He was simply outmatched but he did his part, that's for sure.

Agreed.

[HOoopCityJones]

I already know you consider the 2008 Series vs the Spurs a choke but outside of that when did he choke? 2009 & 2011 his teams were outmatched. I don't remember the series before those.

The Nuggets were good , but they weren't as much of a match up nightmare as we were for them. I'm not faulting Paul for losing to us because we were the better Team ,but at the same time let's not pretend The Lakers weren't on their last legs, The Hornets could've easily upset us like what Dallas eventually did with the talent they still had there. Let's not forget in 2009 David West dropped 24 and 9 in the closeout game so it's not like CP3 didn't have help at all.

[GoatBoy]

Because year after year, he does just that

[BoutPractice]

I've never gotten the feeling that Paul individually was a choker. In fact I got the opposite impression.

Whenever he pulls up for that midrange jumper in the 4th quarter, you can pretty much assume it's going in...

Other than that one game against OKC he's been as reliable as they come in pressure situations.

I guess this is somewhat similar to how Dirk was seen (against all evidence) as a choker until he won the title being his usual clutch self. I've even heard some call Carmelo a choker (of all players, they went after the prototypical now-go-get-me-a-bucket star). Paul needs to at least reach the Conference Finals to shake off that undeserved reputation...

[livinglegend]

because he choked when his team needed him against the Rockets

[Young X]

He was magnificent in the 2011 playoffs versus the Lakers. He was simply outmatched but he did his part, that's for sure.

Question: What's the difference between that series and the other series like '13 vs. Memphis for example? Or '14 vs. OKC? How did he not "choke" in that Laker series?

That's supposed to suggest he has the most impact, responsible for a lot of the Teams wins, and great play, right? Then why can't he be criticized likewise when the Team doesn't perform according to his numbers and advance statistics in crucial situations?

It's not like Chris Paul just started doing this when he joined the Clippers, this choking shit at inopportune moments was a staple during his Hornets tenure too.

He's still the best PG, but then again so was Nash for a time and look how people look back on his career.

No, it's suggesting that he has a high impact on the court. It doesn't automatically = best impact, but you can't have a low impact when you're team plays at that high of a level when you're playing compared to when you're not playing. This shit just doesn't make sense to me.

The Clippers don't make the huge leap as a franchise if CP doesn't have a high impact.

And I never said he shouldn't be criticized when his team doesn't play well. BLAMING him like he was a hindrance to the team though? That's dumb.

In terms of the choking shit, he doesn't have any more chokes than any other high caliber player. Y'all use the choking narrative simply because he hasn't won a championship. He has plenty of clutch moments as well.

[Wade's Rings]

The Nuggets were good , but they weren't as much of a match up nightmare as we were for them. I'm not faulting Paul for losing to us because we were the better Team ,but at the same time let's not pretend The Lakers weren't on their last legs, The Hornets could've easily upset us like what Dallas eventually did with the talent they still had there. Let's not forget in 2009 David West dropped 24 and 9 in the closeout game so it's not like CP3 didn't have help at all.

The Lakers were coming off 3 straight Finals but I felt they were still the better team at the end of the day.

What were West's numbers the 1st 4 Games?

[DMAVS41]

Question: What's the difference between that series and the other series like '13 vs. Memphis for example? Or '14 vs. OKC? How did he not "choke" in that Laker series?

No, it's suggesting that he has a high impact on the court. It doesn't automatically = best impact, but you can't have a low impact when you're team plays at that high of a level when you're playing compared to when you're not playing. This shit just doesn't make sense to me.

The Clippers don't make the huge leap as a franchise if CP doesn't have a high impact.

And I never said he shouldn't be criticized when his team doesn't play well. BLAMING him like he was a hindrance to the team though? That's dumb.

In terms of the choking shit, he doesn't have any more chokes than any other high caliber player. Y'all use the choking narrative simply because he hasn't won a championship. He has plenty of clutch moments as well.

I feel like this is a bit of a straw man. I agree that Paul is usually the best player on his team and playing the best or near the best. So in that sense of course he shouldn't be "blamed" or referred to as a negative.

But I don't think anyone is actually saying that. So I think it's a straw man.

What people mean...and I think you know this...is that as the best player/leader...Paul is going to take heat when his team loses in absurd fashion.

Whether you want to admit it or not...it's simply a fact that the collapse against the Thunder 2 years ago and the all time collapse against the Rockets last playoffs are really bad looks for Paul led teams.

Now, if he had something else to hang his hat on in the playoffs...it wouldn't matter as much. Every player...even all time great players...have black marks on their careers. But most of them have some deep runs or titles or finals appearances...etc...to hang their hats on.

Paul doesn't have that. He has some great moments, but he doesn't have the sustained runs. And that is part of being a great player...being able to sustain a level of play in multiple rounds in the playoffs against the best teams while doing things to prevent your team from collapsing.

I view Paul as clearly one of the best points of all time. I think he's probably the best point since Magic. Anyone questioning his greatness as a player doesn't get it.

However, that doesn't mean we can't talk honestly about his role in two really pathetic collapses these last 2 years combined with never getting out of the 2nd round. Again...it's part of being good at basketball to be able to sustain individual and team play in the playoffs for multiple rounds. At this point...I think it's fair to question Paul's ability to do that given the evidence.

[Smoke117]

I feel like this is a bit of a straw man. I agree that Paul is usually the best player on his team and playing the best or near the best. So in that sense of course he shouldn't be "blamed" or referred to as a negative.

But I don't think anyone is actually saying that. So I think it's a straw man.

What people mean...and I think you know this...is that as the best player/leader...Paul is going to take heat when his team loses in absurd fashion.

Whether you want to admit it or not...it's simply a fact that the collapse against the Thunder 2 years ago and the all time collapse against the Rockets last playoffs are really bad looks for Paul led teams.

Now, if he had something else to hang his hat on in the playoffs...it wouldn't matter as much. Every player...even all time great players...have black marks on their careers. But most of them have some deep runs or titles or finals appearances...etc...to hang their hats on.

Paul doesn't have that. He has some great moments, but he doesn't have the sustained runs. And that is part of being a great player...being able to sustain a level of play in multiple rounds in the playoffs against the best teams while doing things to prevent your team from collapsing.

I view Paul as clearly one of the best points of all time. I think he's probably the best point since Magic. Anyone questioning his greatness as a player doesn't get it.

However, that doesn't mean we can't talk honestly about his role in two really pathetic collapses these last 2 years combined with never getting out of the 2nd round. Again...it's part of being good at basketball to be able to sustain individual and team play in the playoffs for multiple rounds. At this point...I think it's fair to question Paul's ability to do that given the evidence.

We can agree here, at least. The people that talk a whole mess of shit on CP3 just don't understand basketball. He's the best pure point guard in the league, he's the best defensive point guard in the league, he's one of the best scoring pg's in the league...and he's got some huge cajones. He's all grit. He's probably the most talented/skilled basketball player in the league. I think a lot of people forget that he's also only 6'0". If you don't think CP3 is a great basketball player than your opinion on anything basketball related is worthless.

[ClipperRevival]

Question: What's the difference between that series and the other series like '13 vs. Memphis for example? Or '14 vs. OKC? How did he not "choke" in that Laker series?

No, it's suggesting that he has a high impact on the court. It doesn't automatically = best impact, but you can't have a low impact when you're team plays at that high of a level when you're playing compared to when you're not playing. This shit just doesn't make sense to me.

The Clippers don't make the huge leap as a franchise if CP doesn't have a high impact.

And I never said he shouldn't be criticized when his team doesn't play well. BLAMING him like he was a hindrance to the team though? That's dumb.

In terms of the choking shit, he doesn't have any more chokes than any other high caliber player. Y'all use the choking narrative simply because he hasn't won a championship. He has plenty of clutch moments as well.

All about context.

2013 against the Griz, we took a 2-0 lead. Then, their bigs started to rip our bigs a new one, just dominating us. DJ was still a very raw player back then. Blake wasn't ready for the physicality. Gasol and Zo just destroyed us. And Del Negro refused to double their bigs entire series. That is what stood out. And that is what got him fired. CP3 didn't make or break us in that series. It was our bigs getting destroyed by their bigs and Del Negro not doing the right things.

Against the Lakets in 2011, he simply played a clearly superior team and played magnificently. He can only do so much.

In 2014, against OKC, we had game 5 wrapped up. Up 7 with 47 seconds left. But CP3 was directly responsible for the loss. Plain and simple. He gave that game away.

[ClipperRevival]

I want to add that the 2013 loss to Memphis isn't exactly a good look for CP3 either. Anytime you go up 2-0, you shouldn't get swept the next 4 games. I know CP3 did hit the game winner as time expired in game 1 or 2. But again, the main factor in that series was their bigs dominating our bigs and Del Negro not adjusting and playing them straight up the entire series. But as an all time great like CP3 is, you never want to lose a series like that.