What's better - 10 more ppg or 2 more defensive rebs

[3ball]

Everyone likes to brag that Lebron led his team in points, rebs, assists and steals on several playoff runs... But here's why that argument is kindergarten-level logic.

First of all, it's true that Lebron led his team in points-rebs-assist-steal, while MJ only led his team in points-assist-steal, not rebounds.. But MJ got more offensive rebounds than Lebron and scored 10 more ppg - so what's better - 10 more ppg, or 2 more defensive rebounds? .. What would you rather have?


JORDAN 1992 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Red"]34.5 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Red"]4.5 dreb[/COLOR].. 5.8 apg.. 2.0 spg
JORDAN 1993 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Red"]35.1 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Red"]5.1 dreb[/COLOR].. 6.0 apg.. 2.1 spg

LEBRON 2013 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Blue"]25.9 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.6 oreb.. [COLOR="Blue"]6.8 dreb[/COLOR].. 6.6 apg.. 1.8 spg
LEBRON 2014 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Blue"]27.4 ppg[/COLOR].. 0.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Blue"]6.4 dreb[/COLOR].. 4.8 apg.. 1.8 spg
.

[LAZERUSS]

Everyone likes to brag that Lebron led his team in points, rebs, assists and steals on several playoff runs.

However, this isn't a valid argument against Jordan because he did the same, minus the rebounds - and even though he didn't lead in rebounds, he has always gotten more offensive rebounds than Lebron, and also scored 8-10 more ppg than Lebron on those playoff runs.

So what's more important - 8-10 more ppg, or 1-2 more defensive rebounds?.. What would you rather have?


JORDAN 1992 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Red"]34.5 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Red"]4.5 dreb[/COLOR].. 5.8 apg.. 2.0 spg
JORDAN 1993 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Red"]35.1 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Red"]5.1 dreb[/COLOR].. 6.0 apg.. 2.1 spg

LEBRON 2013 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Blue"]25.9 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.6 oreb.. [COLOR="Blue"]6.8 dreb[/COLOR].. 6.6 apg.. 1.8 spg
LEBRON 2014 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Blue"]27.4 ppg[/COLOR].. 0.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Blue"]6.4 dreb[/COLOR].. 4.8 apg.. 1.8 spg

MJ was better in '92 and '93 than Lebron was in '13 and '14.

[GIF REACTION]

Illegal defense though

[3ball]

Illegal defense though

No spacing, paint-camping and hand-checking tho

[3ball]

MJ was better in '92 and '93 than Lebron was in '13 and '14.

As the OP shows, I found a couple seasons where Lebron led his team in pts, rebs, assists, and steals - then I compared those seasons to when MJ led his team in all those categories, except rebounds.

As it turns out, MJ averaged 8-10 ppg more when he did it, which more than offsets the 2 defensive rebound advantage Lebron has.

Again - what would you prefer - 2 defensive rebounds or 10 more ppg?

[swagga]

Everyone likes to brag that Lebron led his team in points, rebs, assists and steals on several playoff runs.

However, this isn't a valid argument against Jordan because he did the same, minus the rebounds - and even though he didn't lead in rebounds, he has always gotten more offensive rebounds than Lebron, and also scored 8-10 more ppg than Lebron on those playoff runs.

So what's more important - 8-10 more ppg, or 1-2 more defensive rebounds?.. What would you rather have?


JORDAN 1992 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Red"]34.5 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Red"]4.5 dreb[/COLOR].. 5.8 apg.. 2.0 spg
JORDAN 1993 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Red"]35.1 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Red"]5.1 dreb[/COLOR].. 6.0 apg.. 2.1 spg

LEBRON 2013 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Blue"]25.9 ppg[/COLOR].. 1.6 oreb.. [COLOR="Blue"]6.8 dreb[/COLOR].. 6.6 apg.. 1.8 spg
LEBRON 2014 PLAYOFFS: [COLOR="Blue"]27.4 ppg[/COLOR].. 0.7 oreb.. [COLOR="Blue"]6.4 dreb[/COLOR].. 4.8 apg.. 1.8 spg

just for the playoffs, for the metioned years:

defense goes to lebron (especially '13 dpoy), entire miami system was build on lebron's defense. Bonus : lebron also fouled less
lebron 2.5fpg, 3.4 fpg
jordan 3.6fpg 4.0 fpg

lebron has better ortg-drtg in both years
lebron 118-101, 124-105
jordan 115-104, 119-107

efficiency also goes to lebron, by a WIDE margin.
jordan '92 0.49 FG%/57TS% jordan '93 0.45 FG%/55TS%
lebron '13 0.49 FG%/58TS% lebron '13 0.56 FG%/66TS%

also lebron did it against MUCH tougher defenses (DRTG)
lebron: SAS (101), IND (100), CHI (103), MIL (105), SAS (102), IND(99), BRK (107), CHA (104)
jordan: POR(104), CLE( 108), NYK (104), MIA (110), PHX (107), NYK (100), CLE (106), ATL(110)

Other stats such as PER, BPM, VORP, etc are all slightly in lebron's favor.

Jordan usage was much higher 37% & 38% vs lebron's 29% and 31% ... so here is where the scoring discrepancy comes from. Jordan also stat padded 2 more minutes per game.

TLDR lebron is a much more efficient, team-oriented jordan that played in a tougher era.
You mad bro?

[3ball]

also lebron did it against MUCH tougher defenses (DRTG)
lebron: SAS (101), IND (100), CHI (103), MIL (105), SAS (102), IND(99), BRK (107), CHA (104)
jordan: POR(104), CLE( 108), NYK (104), MIA (110), PHX (107), NYK (100), CLE (106), ATL(110)

Your stats are inaccurate for the individual ORtg and DRtg you listed earlier - you used MJ's 1998 stats instead of his 1992 - nice try lying itt... That's a great look..

Anyway, the team DRtg's you listed above are useless - DRtg penalizes previous eras for taking more two-pointers - for this reason, ORtg and DRtg can't be used to compare across eras.

Specifically, 2-pointers have higher offensive rebounding rate than 3-pointers - the higher proportion of 2-pointers taken in previous eras gave those eras higher offensive rebounding rates and subsequently higher ORtg/DRtg.. This is a well-known statistical fact.. It's just the way the stat is calculated - higher oreb rate increases ORtg and corresponding DRtg.

So again, team or league-wide offensive/defensive ratings can't be used to grade defense across eras.. Only dumb people do it.. Literally.

[3ball]

Jordan usage was much higher 37% & 38% vs lebron's 29% and 31% ... so here is where the scoring discrepancy comes from.

MJ shot much more because his efficiency could handle the additional volume.. Otoh, Lebron shot much less, because his efficiency tanks at high volume.

You guys have a massive misunderstanding of efficiency and volume.. [COLOR="Navy"]When you see MJ shooting more at equal efficiency, that means he's doing exactly what Lebron is doing, but he's doing a lot more OF IT[/COLOR].. Apply that concept to the per 100 stats of everyone below (playoffs per 100) - since MJ's efficiency is the same, MJ is doing exactly what everyone else is doing, but doing much more OF IT:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]43.3 pts.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts[/COLOR].. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.8 pts.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk
KOBE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk
WADE:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk


If these guys could shoot the same efficiency at MJ's higher volume, they would.. But they can't, so everyone's stats are bunched together, while MJ stands all alone at the top - look how much more MJ did.. It's amazing.

[swagga]

Your stats are inaccurate for the individual ORtg and DRtg you listed earlier - you used MJ's 1998 stats instead of his 1992 - nice try lying itt... That's a great look..

Anyway, the team DRtg's you listed above are useless - DRtg penalizes previous eras for taking more two-pointers - for this reason, ORtg and DRtg can't be used to compare across eras.

Specifically, 2-pointers have higher offensive rebounding rate than 3-pointers - the higher proportion of 2-pointers taken in previous eras gave those eras higher offensive rebounding rates and subsequently higher ORtg/DRtg.. This is a well-known statistical fact.. It's just the way the stat is calculated - higher oreb rate increases ORtg and corresponding DRtg.

So again, team or league-wide offensive/defensive ratings can't be used to grade defense across eras.. Only dumb people do it.. Literally.

lol, you are such a cuckolded sissy liar.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jordami01.html
115-104
119-195
playoffs, per-possession, 1992 and 1993 seasons

if you are referring to the team stats:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/1992.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/1992.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/1992.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/1992.html
... if you want I can post all the links, it's all there you fagggot.

Keep the L

[swagga]

MJ shot much more because his efficiency could handle the additional volume.. Otoh, Lebron shot much less, because his efficiency tanks at high volume.

You guys have a massive misunderstanding of efficiency and volume.. [COLOR="Navy"]When you see MJ shooting more at equal efficiency, that means he's doing exactly what Lebron is doing, but he's doing a lot more OF IT[/COLOR].. Apply that concept to the per 100 stats of everyone below (playoffs per 100) - since MJ's efficiency is the same, MJ is doing exactly what everyone else is doing, but doing much more OF IT:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] [COLOR="DarkRed"]43.3 pts.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts[/COLOR].. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.8 pts.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk
KOBE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk
WADE:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk


If these guys could shoot the same efficiency at MJ's higher volume, they would.. But they can't, so everyone's stats are bunched together, while MJ stands all alone at the top - look how much more MJ did.. It's amazing.

lebron's '14 playoffs his TS is a full 10% over jordan.
niggga I got you on skates

[swagga]

tbh the more you post the more you look like euroleague, ming and kbp, the same regurgitated spam shit.

How beta can you be?

[Quickening]

just for the playoffs, for the metioned years:

defense goes to lebron (especially '13 dpoy), entire miami system was build on lebron's defense. Bonus : lebron also fouled less
lebron 2.5fpg, 3.4 fpg
jordan 3.6fpg 4.0 fpg

lebron has better ortg-drtg in both years
lebron 118-101, 124-105
jordan 115-104, 119-107

efficiency also goes to lebron, by a WIDE margin.
jordan '92 0.49 FG%/57TS% jordan '93 0.45 FG%/55TS%
lebron '13 0.49 FG%/58TS% lebron '13 0.56 FG%/66TS%

also lebron did it against MUCH tougher defenses (DRTG)
lebron: SAS (101), IND (100), CHI (103), MIL (105), SAS (102), IND(99), BRK (107), CHA (104)
jordan: POR(104), CLE( 108), NYK (104), MIA (110), PHX (107), NYK (100), CLE (106), ATL(110)

Other stats such as PER, BPM, VORP, etc are all slightly in lebron's favor.

Jordan usage was much higher 37% & 38% vs lebron's 29% and 31% ... so here is where the scoring discrepancy comes from. Jordan also stat padded 2 more minutes per game.

TLDR lebron is a much more efficient, team-oriented jordan that played in a tougher era.
You mad bro?

OP bodybagged

[Nash]

swagga

[Haymaker]

I'd rather have 4 more rings.

[WayOfWade]

Logic says 10 PPG more, seeing as you need points to actually win the game