LeBron aims to emulate 'fearless' Jordan

[guy]

He's blasted some major pressure situations Mj never faced and even one that Mj had the exact same situation and folded under. Time for the hollow narrative to stop.

What situation was that?

[bluechox2]

hes trying to emulate the fear in jordans opponent

[Wade's Rings]

What situation was that?

The only situation that comes to my mind would be Game 6 vs the Celtics but even then..that happened because of Bron's Epic Choke the year before vs the Mavs. MJ may have never had a moment like that but that moment only happened because of Bron's choking, Mike wasn't choking.

[pauk]

Except for 2011 (Finals only) i never doubted his "fearlessness", im not entirely sure what Lebron talks about, everything else is Jordan simply being more selfish than Lebron... not saying Jordan was selfish (well...) but just surely more selfish than Lebron was, they just had different games... he idolised Jordan but patterned the game after Magic, Penny, Oscar, Hill, Bird etc scorers who were extremly unselfish & some even point-guards.... trying to emulate Jordans offensive mindset/instincts doesnt make sense, those are two completely different gamestyles / offensive mindsets / instincts... Why he finds it hard to play that "fearless" aka. more selfish is because he has always tried to play the game the right way, make the right pass, shot, have things go within the flow of the game, those have been his natural offensive instincts since high school..... Lebron has it in him i think due to his scoring ability, but he will have to change his offensive mindset/instincts completely, starting with chucking 25-30 FGA per game and leaving the Point-Guard / Pass-First job more alone.... something like he did in last Finals...

[theoneneo]

didn't read.... 2/7 in coming

[sdot_thadon]

What situation was that?

Exact same scenario:

Year 4 for lebron, year 5 for Mj. Eastern conference finals, neither man had been to the finals at that point. Series knotted 2-2 with game 5 and a chance to get within a win of their 1st finals appearance on the visiting floor. One guy scored 29 of his team's last 30 points including the game winner, the other guy shot 8 times. One went on to his 1st finals, the other wouldn't break through for another 2 seasons. LeBron was only 22, Mj 25.

[JT123]

Exact same scenario:

Year 4 for lebron, year 5 for Mj. Eastern conference finals, neither man had been to the finals at that point. Series knotted 2-2 with game 5 and a chance to get within a win of their 1st finals appearance on the visiting floor. One guy scored 29 of his team's last 30 points including the game winner, the other guy shot 8 times. One went on to his 1st finals, the other wouldn't break through for another 2 seasons. LeBron was only 22, Mj 25.

rat poison. Jordan stans will avoid this post like the plague

[Sarcastic]

1989 Pistons > 2007 Pistons.

Jordan didn't have anyone like Boobie Gibson carrying Lebron's 3 for 11 shooting in game 6 either.


https://youtu.be/PG58oZyw538

[sdot_thadon]

1989 Pistons > 2007 Pistons.

Jordan didn't have anyone like Boobie Gibson carrying Lebron's 3 for 11 shooting in game 6 either.


https://youtu.be/PG58oZyw538

Perhaps, but if you think lebron is as far inferior as many say here it shouldn't be an issue.

[Indian guy]

LeBron's 2 championships were won under a ridiculous amount of adversity and unprecedented media scrutiny. In 2012, Miami lost Bosh for 9 games in the playoffs and trailed in 3 consecutive playoff series' and still won the championship - only team to do so in NBA history. And look up LeBron's numbers in the 'must-win' games of each of those series' - 40/18/9, 45/15/5, 32/8/5. In the 2013 playoffs, they played in 3 elimination games and LeBron had lines of 32/8/4, 32/10/11 and 37/12/4.

This is the opposite of front-running or being mentally weak. LeBron was pretty much the embodiment of clutch when he won. And look at his over all career - he came in as at he most hyped athlete ever and not only did he match the hype, he actually exceeded it. That screams mentally weak, alright. And no, LeBron certainly wasn't "fearless" and there's nothing wrong with that. MJ and Kobe are the exceptions. LeBron is human and predisposed to fears everybody else is, but character is defined by how you face your challenges/demons, and LeBron's managed to carve out a top 10 career. I think we can agree he did alright.

[Magic 32]

LeBron is human and predisposed to fears everybody else is

Lebron's fear isn't like anyone else's though.

His fear is that he isn't going to be seen as the greatest thing that ever walked the earth.

He was "the chosen one". The savior of the world.

If that's your goal you better be mentally "fearless".

[guy]

Exact same scenario:

Year 4 for lebron, year 5 for Mj. Eastern conference finals, neither man had been to the finals at that point. Series knotted 2-2 with game 5 and a chance to get within a win of their 1st finals appearance on the visiting floor. One guy scored 29 of his team's last 30 points including the game winner, the other guy shot 8 times. One went on to his 1st finals, the other wouldn't break through for another 2 seasons. LeBron was only 22, Mj 25.

So are you taking into account that one faced a much tougher opponent and had a much tougher road to the finals? The 89 Pistons are more like the 07 Spurs or 08 Celtics who beat Lebron's Cavs, not the 07 Pistons. Its not the exact same scenario. But to be fair, its hard to get to an "exact same scenario" for any two players. But with that said, it doesn't make sense to point out how this was something Jordan didn't do as an argument for Lebron.

As far as the bigger point goes, Lebron as one of the best playoff pressure players of all-time? I don't know. On one hand he's capable of having some of the greatest playoff performances under pressure ever i.e. 2007 ECF G5, 2012 ECF G6, 2013 Finals G7. On the other hand, he's had maybe just as many historically terrible playoff performances under pressure for someone of his standards as well i.e. 2007 Finals, 2010 ECSF G5, 2011 Finals. Its almost like you don't know what you're going to get with him in a pressure situation the higher the stakes are. One extreme or the other is equally likely. If you just remove those terrible performances, he definitely is. And to be fair, maybe we should cut him some slack and take into account that he might have a larger sample size of those situations then a lot of other superstars and no one's been under the microscope like him i.e. someone like Hakeem doesn't have those terrible performances but he also lost in the first round or didn't make the playoffs for like 5 years in a row and didn't have the same expectations like Lebron so he wasn't in the same situation as much.

So I don't know. What I do know is for the standards he's measured against i.e. GOAT, Jordan, etc. he's not really lived up to expectations as far as performing under pressure goes. And he's basically admitted that in this article.

[sdot_thadon]

So are you taking into account that one faced a much tougher opponent and had a much tougher road to the finals? The 89 Pistons are more like the 07 Spurs or 08 Celtics who beat Lebron's Cavs, not the 07 Pistons. Its not the exact same scenario. But to be fair, its hard to get to an "exact same scenario" for any two players. But with that said, it doesn't make sense to point out how this was something Jordan didn't do as an argument for Lebron.

As far as the bigger point goes, Lebron as one of the best playoff pressure players of all-time? I don't know. On one hand he's capable of having some of the greatest playoff performances under pressure ever i.e. 2007 ECF G5, 2012 ECF G6, 2013 Finals G7. On the other hand, he's had maybe just as many historically terrible playoff performances under pressure for someone of his standards as well i.e. 2007 Finals, 2010 ECSF G5, 2011 Finals. Its almost like you don't know what you're going to get with him in a pressure situation the higher the stakes are. One extreme or the other is equally likely. If you just remove those terrible performances, he definitely is. And to be fair, maybe we should cut him some slack and take into account that he might have a larger sample size of those situations then a lot of other superstars and no one's been under the microscope like him i.e. someone like Hakeem doesn't have those terrible performances but he also lost in the first round or didn't make the playoffs for like 5 years in a row and didn't have the same expectations like Lebron so he wasn't in the same situation as much.

So I don't know. What I do know is for the standards he's measured against i.e. GOAT, Jordan, etc. he's not really lived up to expectations as far as performing under pressure goes. And he's basically admitted that in this article.

You can nitpick quality and what not, but it's pretty close man. Both were going against the team that was THE roadblock for them. A top 3 to 5 defense without even needing to check. Of course they weren't the 04 pistons, but if you watched actively back then they owned the Cavs up to that point. As I responded to an earlier post if you're of the ilk that believes Lebron to be far inferior then it shouldn't really be an issue. Also you open quite the can of worms, the 89 pistons were also much better than the 91 version of the team.

Back to the meat of the discussion, u disagree with the notion that he's some big game failure. Lebron has had more good games than bad, the only reason guys hold on to his failures longer is this era of fans are totally different. New breed. For every bad game or series you mention, how many spectacular ones has he had on the flip side? He's shined in some pretty dire situations and had a great game in the ultimate basketball game, game 7 of the finals. I'm not sure what more you want from dude aside from replicating MJ's career 1:1, which isn't happening and isn't the only path to goat.

[sd3035]

I think it's a bit late

A career choker isn't going to suddenly become a killer when he's rapidly declining

[plowking]

1989 Pistons > 2007 Pistons.

Jordan didn't have anyone like Boobie Gibson carrying Lebron's 3 for 11 shooting in game 6 either.


https://youtu.be/PG58oZyw538

Yep, he just had his team carry him in closeouts while shooting 5-19.