Just so we're clear everyone on ISH is aware the earth is warming up - right?

[CavaliersFTW]

Do you realize that data is 130 years out of 4.6 million? Serious question.

0.000028% of the earth's existence. I'm not sure you're understanding that.

Yeah, I am understanding that. I provided graphs for the last 1 million years. A little bit about myself, I used to illustrate for paleontology I have a very good understanding of the earths geologic timescale - and climate for that matter as I used to illustrate specifically about species from the last ice age and a few ice ages prior. Me understanding climate data was inexorably linked to what I used to do.

Are you aware that at the very end of that million year graph that period of stability in both temperature and c02 is a duration of about 9,000 years?

Up until 100 years ago the earth is at a stable high point within the natural cycle for the past 9,000 years. Suddenly and I mean very suddenly the c02 doubles in a span of 100 years.... and the temperature rises over 2 degrees. Both of those things have NEVER happened before in that million years of ice core data.

Not a coincidence. And again not within the earths normal cycles of the past million years. Many many ice ages and warming periods happened in that million years. Enough that we know for a fact c02 and temperature are linked. However, nothing changed as quick as it has in the past 100 years. How are you so pigheaded that you are still in denial? It's like you refuse to believe the data illustrates anything. Why is this?

[UK2K]

A 2+ degree rise in average temperature on a pretty linearly "upward" direction. In a span of just 100 years.

In that span of just 100 years c02 levels have been doubled past any high-point of literally the past million years. All the high points and low points the past million years have been extremely consistent in their cycle. Except for right now. Right now we're double the high point has ever been.

Prior to the industrial revolution we were ALREADY within a normal earth-cycle HIGH point in both temperature and c02. Now we're double that in c02, and like I said, the temperature rose 2 degrees in just 100 years. It normally takes about 1,000-3,000 years to see that kind of temperature rise during the earths observed natural cycles of the past million years.

Why the sudden spike in c02? Us. Why the sudden spike in temperature? Us boosting the c02.

How is this so difficult to see? Anyone who can refute this is literally just in denial.

There IS a political question to be had here, but the political question is not "should we believe it" the political question is "should we do anything different".

How could the temperature drop from the 40's to the 80's with all that C02 floating around? Could it be that the earth's climate naturally changes every few years?

Or did we suck all the C02 out of the atmosphere? I'm sure your 'amount of C02 in the atmosphere' graph has an ever increasing line... but the average temperature doesn't correlate. How come?

Its amazing, we can use graphs made by the same people, but they don't look similar.

I am of the opinion that there are other forces in nature that have more of an impact on earth's climate than burning plastic. That's all I am saying.

Look back in history, changes in climate have been occurring long before man ever existed. I am not saying man-made pollution has zero effect on the climate (like you are asserting), I am saying it has less of an effect as Al Gore believes. That's all.

I believe you, that you probably know what you're talking about. I think the disconnect is what you think I think.

[CavaliersFTW]

How could the temperature drop from the 40's to the 80's with all that C02 floating around? Could it be that the earth's climate naturally changes every few years?

Or did we suck all the C02 out of the atmosphere? I'm sure your 'amount of C02 in the atmosphere' graph has an ever increasing line... but the average temperature doesn't correlate. How come?

Its amazing, we can use graphs made by the same people, but they don't look similar.

I am of the opinion that there are other forces in nature that have more of an impact on earth's climate than burning plastic. That's all I am saying.

Look back in history, changes in climate have been occurring long before man ever existed. I am not saying man-made pollution has zero effect on the climate (like you are asserting), I am saying it has less of an effect as Al Gore believes. That's all.

I believe you, that you probably know what you're talking about. I think the disconnect is what you think I think.

That graph quite clearly illustrates a steady rise - and in only 100 years. Even during any of the many warming periods of the past million years a 100 year rise like that has never been observed, that same rise of 2+ degrees normally took 1,000-3,000 years. What is happening right now is not the same as the natural cycles that happened in the past.

Random blips downwards for a year or two or even 10 do not contradict the 100 year rise. That's the point of graphing. To see the trend. The trend is quite clearly, and quite steadily up.

*EDIT*

Also a couple of things to understand about that graph: The "average" temperature among THAT specific time periods recorded data is represented as that line across the middle. The actual average temperature of the past 9,000 years of climatic stability would be lower than that, if that was used as the average that line would be somewhere about what was observed in 1880's to 1920. Another thing to note, that chart is in degrees C not F. And also, what needs to be understood that that one graph alone does not illustrate is that the prior 9,000 years have been stable, and prior to that 9,000 years the earth was much colder. And prior to that there have been about a dozen warm and cool cycles understood from ice core data of the past million years - but all the cycles peaked at what the earth peaked at for the past 9,000 years. Now that the temperature spiked 2 degrees in only 100 years, we're breaking the trend the ice core data reveals. Not following it.

[bladefd]

I am of the opinion that there are other forces in nature that have more of an impact on earth's climate than burning plastic. That's all I am saying.

Look back in history, changes in climate have been occurring long before man ever existed. I am not saying man-made pollution has zero effect on the climate (like you are asserting), I am saying it has less of an effect as Al Gore believes. That's all.

-burning fossil fuel
-burning plastic,
-deforestation
-large amounts of breeding cows for more milk, meat, etc lead to excess methane (methane is another greenhouse gas like CO2, you get N2O from the extra cows/pigs/etc being bred)
-surging human population (requires more ground to get higher food yields, more electricity required aka more fossil fuel being burned, more garbage and human wastes release more greenhouse gases like CO2, methane, etc)

All of them have impacts on climate change and are all manmade causes. Where do you think those greenhouse gases go? Anyone that says humans are not contributing to climate change is a fool that does not understand basic logic or how greenhouse effect works (i.e. Jeb Bush who says climate change is happening but humans have nothing to do with it).

[UK2K]

-burning fossil fuel
-burning plastic,
-deforestation
-large amounts of breeding cows for more milk, meat, etc lead to excess methane (methane is another greenhouse gas like CO2, you get N2O from the extra cows/pigs/etc being bred)
-surging human population (requires more ground to get higher food yields, more electricity required aka more fossil fuel being burned, more garbage and human wastes release more greenhouse gases like CO2, methane, etc)

All of them have impacts on climate change and are all manmade causes. Where do you think those greenhouse gases go? Anyone that says humans are not contributing to climate change is a fool that does not understand basic logic or how greenhouse effect works (i.e. Jeb Bush who says climate change is happening but humans have nothing to do with it).

I never said that. You are exactly the kind of person I was talking about.

[oarabbus]

Why am I not surprised UK2K is a climate change denier?

[UK2K]

Why am I not surprised UK2K is a climate change denier?

Never said that either.

Keep trying though.

[CavaliersFTW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF9LNuH3IpU

Explained in 3 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Jxs7lR8ZI

Explained in 10 minutes

[bladefd]

I never said that. You are exactly the kind of person I was talking about.

I never said that you said that. I used Jeb Bush as the example. If the shot was targeted at you, I would have used you as the example.

Do you believe humans contribute to climate change? If you don't believe that then yes you would be included with Jeb Bush. If you do believe that then no, you would not be included with Jeb Bush. Don't say "I don't know" because I gave you direct examples in my post you quoted.

[outbreak]

I haven't read all of what uk2k has said here so maybe he said something stupid I missed but I think he's actually right. Humans contribute to global warming but they aren't the only cause. Human beings by nature are arrogant though and have to make everything about themselves. As soon as you say this people say you are stupid and take things to the extreme claiming you are denying climate change, you don't have to deny climate change and you don't have to deny mankinds impact but you can say there are other factors causing changes as well.

[oarabbus]

Never said that either.

Keep trying though.

You don't deny the fact of climate change, but you deny that humans have anything to do with it. Am I closer now?

[CavaliersFTW]

I haven't read all of what uk2k has said here so maybe he said something stupid I missed but I think he's actually right. Humans contribute to global warming but they aren't the only cause. Human beings by nature are arrogant though and have to make everything about themselves. As soon as you say this people say you are stupid and take things to the extreme claiming you are denying climate change, you don't have to deny climate change and you don't have to deny mankinds impact but you can say there are other factors causing changes as well.

No you can't actually - not for the changes happening in the past 100 years.

There is zero evidence that the climate has warmed up in the past hundred years for any reason other than human's increased production of greenhouse gases and elimination of oxygen producing plant biomes such as rainforests.

In the past 100 years, it's entirely due to humans. And the climate was stable for the prior 9,000 years. Nature does have a fluctuation on its own but it takes a much longer time and we were/should stil be in a stable period right now and the next predictable "change" based on ice core data would have been a gradual drop in temperature over the course of a few thousand years anyways. Not a rise, in just 100.

[outbreak]

No you can't actually - not for the changes happening in the past 100 years.

There is zero evidence that the climate has warmed up in the past hundred years for any reason other than human's increased production of greenhouse gases and elimination of oxygen producing plant biomes such as rainforests.

In the past 100 years, it's entirely due to humans. And the climate was stable for the prior 9,000 years. Nature does have a fluctuation on its own but it takes a much longer time and we were/should stil be in a stable period right now and the next predictable "change" based on ice core data would have been a gradual drop in temperature over the course of a few thousand years anyways. Not a rise, in just 100.

You did not read what I wrote. I didn't say humans aren't speeding it up I'm just saying it's incorrect to say it's purely caused by humans.

There's been a bunch of studies and theories going back before climate change was a hot issue showing that another mass extinction due to climate shift was coming in the next few thousand years. I think they even showed we were over due.

Again I'm not saying humans aren't speeding things up and aren't involved. I'm just saying there's more to it than just humans being the only cause, even the large part we play isn't an isolated incident through history. There have been other examples of dominant species being some successful they damage the environment for period of time, off the top of my head I can recall reading about when plants first evolved to output oxygen they caused other life to die out due to the changes this caused. I'm not saying it's not humans i'm saying it's more complex than saying it's just a result of humans.

We shouldn't be talking about the earth being stable in thousand year periods either, that's too small of a time span to look at it's just hard for us a species to comprehend appropriate timespans.

[CavaliersFTW]

You did not read what I wrote. I didn't say humans aren't speeding it up I'm just saying it's incorrect to say it's purely caused by humans.

There's been a bunch of studies and theories going back before climate change was a hot issue showing that another mass extinction due to climate shift was coming in the next few thousand years. I think they even showed we were over due.

Again I'm not saying humans aren't speeding things up and aren't involved. I'm just saying there's more to it than just humans being the only cause, even the large part we play isn't an isolated incident through history. There have been other examples of dominant species being some successful they damage the environment for period of time, off the top of my head I can recall reading about when plants first evolved to output oxygen they caused other life to die out due to the changes this caused. I'm not saying it's not humans i'm saying it's more complex than saying it's just a result of humans.

What happened in the past 100 years is caused strictly by humans though. We're not speeding anything up. We were in the middle of a 9,000 year period of climatic stability. And based on ice core data the next change should have been a gradual cooling over the course of many thousands of years.

Not warming up in 100. That's entirely us. We're not assisting, or speeding up anything. The climate shouldn't even be warming up. And we're not being a small drip of a bigger pond like you're trying to imply. We and we alone caused a change in the opposite direction in 100 years that nature would not have caused. I understand exactly what you said, and it isn't what the data suggests.

[DeuceWallaces]

I haven't read all of what uk2k has said here so maybe he said something stupid I missed but I think he's actually right. Humans contribute to global warming but they aren't the only cause. Human beings by nature are arrogant though and have to make everything about themselves. As soon as you say this people say you are stupid and take things to the extreme claiming you are denying climate change, you don't have to deny climate change and you don't have to deny mankinds impact but you can say there are other factors causing changes as well.

No. There is mountains of scientific and statistical evidence, but for some reason people like yourself, UK, or whoever seem to think they actually know what they're talking about, because yet another scientific issue has been politicized. Therefore, you're filled with dumbass talking points that are based not in science but corporate bullshit.

Nothing in the history of geologic time comes close to mimicking what's taken place over the past 150 years. Only the PETM comes close and it took like 100 thousand years.